What would the next generation bullet type be?
It started with lead, then switched to copper and nickel, and then we got monos.
What will the next material be?
Is there a way to make plastic heavy?
I doubt it will be non-metal. The combination of density and ductility for inertia and 'engravability' aren't really available in anything else that I can think of.
There has been talk if using some kind of nuclear waste (depleted uranium?) for tank shells.
How feasible would that be for hunting and target shooting? It is said to be very heavy, which means a small projectile at a high speed. Does this contain a health risk?
Not so much a new "bullet" material, but with the SIG Military contract, not only did they manufacture a few new Firearms but they created a new hybrid cartridge (Caliber: 277 SIG FURY / 6.8 x 51)
https://www.ssusa.org/content/sig-sauer-announces-commercial-version-of-u-s-army-ngsw-mcx-spear-277-sig-fury-ammo/
Quote from: Ds J on Mar 20, 2024, 09:10 AMThere has been talk if using some kind of nuclear waste (depleted uranium?) for tank shells.
How feasible would that be for hunting and target shooting? It is said to be very heavy, which means a small projectile at a high speed. Does this contain a health risk?
It's used in kinetic munitions because of it's density but also because of its hardness. Suspect that it would be too hard to properly engrave in a rifle so it might need to be combined with something softer that could provide a bearing surface. Beyond that you couldn't convince me to eat animals whacked by a bullet made of the stuff unless I was a 6 or 7 days hungry at least.
There was on some site some talk of titanium and a epoxy that made for a very, very high BC - SD bullet. Some experiments were done, but the cost of titanium was prohibitive and the super SD was wasted as it was only really suited for target shooting. No hunting application as it could only be made as a stay solid or shatter bullet.
There was some later mention of lead titanium attempts to up the SD of hunting bullets.
Have not thought of this subject in like 10 years, I stumbled onto matter when trying to get most out of a .223 for Cody to start hunting with. I ended up using Sierra 63 gr bullets.
I hunted with a guy that used tungsten bullets.
They cost the earth, but tungsten is 1.74 times the density of lead, so you can imagine the momentum and penetration of such a bullet.
They looked like monos that were quite hollow inside with a big plastic tip to expand the metal that I presume is much harder than lead.
No idea what they do to your barrel?
Quote from: Againstthegrains on Mar 29, 2024, 10:44 AMI hunted with a guy that used tungsten bullets.
They cost the earth, but tungsten is 1.74 times the density of lead, so you can imagine the momentum and penetration of such a bullet.
They looked like monos that were quite hollow inside with a big plastic tip to expand the metal that I presume is much harder than lead.
No idea what they do to your barrel?
No sabot to protect the barrel?
Tungsten is 9 10ths as hard as diamond. I have to assume that the bullets in question had some or other jacket of softer metal that would engrave and not nuke the barrel.
Maybe a tungsten alloy? Pure tungsten shatters on impact - an engineer once showed it to me by dropping a piece on the floor.
Depleted uranium (DU) use explained
https://youtu.be/9W_nMRbIlZI
https://orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/depleted-uranium/penetrators.html
Quote from: Treeman on Mar 20, 2024, 08:07 PMThere was on some site some talk of titanium and a epoxy that made for a very, very high BC - SD bullet. Some experiments were done, but the cost of titanium was prohibitive and the super SD was wasted as it was only really suited for target shooting. No hunting application as it could only be made as a stay solid or shatter bullet.
There was some later mention of lead titanium attempts to up the SD of hunting bullets.
Have not thought of this subject in like 10 years, I stumbled onto matter when trying to get most out of a .223 for Cody to start hunting with. I ended up using Sierra 63 gr bullets.
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;D ;D :o :o me and facts - perhaps it was tungsten, not titanium :-\ - some supper heavy stuff, thought it was same as my watch ??
I found Powel River Laboratories and DRT make a compressed tungsten fragment core bullet in copper cup, but info on these is scant, other than the fact that they were very heavy for their size, and killed fast.
A question on toxicity of tungsten gave the following interesting facts.
https://wwwn.cdc.gov/TSP/ToxFAQs/ToxFAQsDetails.aspx?faqid=805&toxid=157
A bit embarrassed about my Titanium post, not one of my dear mates corrected me :o
Ya well anyway, when I was trying to up the effectiveness of the .223 as a hunting bullet, I came across a few posts of guys using tungsten and complaining about the price and apparent unobtainable status in recent years. There was talk of resin,epoxy and press mold forming bullets.
I have not tried to find the article again, but do recall that tungsten was no longer available mail order in the states and when found it was stupid costly. The bullets had issues staying together and much heavier bullets were shot through standard twist barrels.
Quote from: Treeman on Apr 03, 2024, 02:03 PMA bit embarrassed about my Titanium
Not at all. I have made that mistake myself. Some of the greatest inventions come from mistakes. From titanium you can make extra high velocity, light for caliber high BC bullets with incredible weight retention properties ;D
Maybe so that snipers can bend them around obstacles in high wind conditions ;D
Look from 17m25s
https://youtu.be/TmHm8KFs6cI
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Apr 05, 2024, 07:33 AMLook from 17m25s
https://youtu.be/TmHm8KFs6cI
Very interesting. My spidey sense says it's going to be fiercely priced.
DUP in 308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtdmsZ4Csn8
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Apr 06, 2024, 10:23 AMDUP in 308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtdmsZ4Csn8
Depleted Uranium, great idea!!! Instead of using a tracking dog to find you wounded Kudu, you can just use a Geiger counter ;D
Quote from: Againstthegrains on Apr 07, 2024, 06:37 PMQuote from: Tripodmvr on Apr 06, 2024, 10:23 AMDUP in 308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtdmsZ4Csn8
Depleted Uranium, great idea!!! Instead of using a tracking dog to find you wounded Kudu, you can just use a Geiger counter ;D
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. Whats that expression? "come on over to the dark side, we have cookies"
Quote from: Againstthegrains on Apr 04, 2024, 10:21 PMQuote from: Treeman on Apr 03, 2024, 02:03 PMA bit embarrassed about my Titanium
Not at all. I have made that mistake myself. Some of the greatest inventions come from mistakes. From titanium you can make extra high velocity, light for caliber high BC bullets with incredible weight retention properties ;D
Maybe so that snipers can bend them around obstacles in high wind conditions ;D
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The way I know the movie industry, The movie would have hero that shoots Titanium because its lighter and therefore faster and therefore able to shoot twice as far as anyone who is not the hero. It is likely that he will turn the bullets on a lathe himself, and use a lots of measurements on a Vernier caliper. If custom to Hollywood, he will likely grind some dynamite sticks up as the propellent.
The bullet would then penetrate 2 walls, a microwave and then on impact lift bad guy of his feet and put him through a further 2 walls.
yOU HAVE WATCHED TOO MANY MOVIES
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Apr 08, 2024, 02:18 PMyOU HAVE WATCHED TOO MANY MOVIES
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I stopped watching TV a perhaps 30 years ago, 1997 till November a year ago I had watched the Matrix series only in some 13 years. When we flew to Aus some time back I watched movies on the 16 hr legs of the flight - same brain dead shit. I think the Matrix was the last "think about it" movie ever made.
I see bits of movies through wife or visiting friends ? kak kak and kakker ! John Wick shit.
What about nickel, or even nickel silver - could that work?
Quote from: Ds J on Apr 20, 2024, 06:07 PMWhat about nickel, or even nickel silver - could that work?
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How ????
Found on a Google search.
The cupro-nickle fouling on rifle bores in the early 1900s presented problems that utimately lead to the introduction of the copper jacketed bullets. Cu-Ni jacket fouling of bores were nearly impossible to clear without the use of extremely "toxic" chemicals to remove. In modern times the Swiss produced .223 ammo for use in their military firearms that used Cu-Ni jacketed bullets. They surplused that ammo ( I purchased several thousand rounds) in the late 90's because of the very same "issues" prior generations of shooters experianced....Cu-Ni fouled bores that were/are nearly impossible to clear beacuase their use formed "lumpy" deposits in the rifle bores. I "damaged" a Kreiger S/S barrel in my match AR by using this very pretty looking ammo. The Swiss used this type of jacket on their very popular GP11 ammo used in the K31 rifle which, as we American shooters are finding to be a very accurate combination. BUT...if you examine this ammo you will find that it features a wax ring at the neck/bullet junction. The wax is not acting as a sealent but rather...as found out the hard way by past generation shooters. ... aids in reducing the Cu-Ni fouling of the jacket to the bore.
IMHO before you use these very pretty looking bullets I would seach the 'net for a history lesson about Cu-Ni jacketed bullets and the "issues" they caused.
They are a very pretty bullet.
I dont do pretty unless it smells nice as well ;D ;D ;D
Hortonium
https://youtu.be/YH1bjcqc9q4
3D printed bullets using any material you want
3D printing has come a long way and is still being improved
One could possibly make multi material bullets - exotic materials with a jacket just thick enough for engraving.
or
Just do what artillery shells do - have driving bands - what solid copper bullets have
I think law will be passed that will prescribe lead content as an "for now" start to a solution. Government will state that no bullet may have more than a 50 % lead content and manufacturers will figure around the law with offerings.
Is there enough will and financial, political backing to force any change over and above the token gestures we have seen in regard to banning lead ?
Banning lead? Good luck in THIS third world country.
I am quite happily shooting a my own wheelweight cast lead bullets in my 9mmP and 38 Spl. Will have to buy hunting bullets for the rifle though.