Just received my 195 gr flat point powder coated .303 bullets, going to venture into reloading cast bullets for a rifle.
My old Lee has a 16 inch barrel and I think the heavy bullets will suite it better than the lighter bullets.
Has anyone loaded lead 195 gr bullets using S335 ?
What speeds can I shoot, I am thinking max speed for an 195 gr Cup and Core bullet will be well within the PC lead cast bullet velocity range.
Wrong time of the year to ask questions it seems 😄
Somchem mentions a max speed if 2342fps for a regular 200gr bullet. And somewhere dr Google prescribes a max speed of 2900fps for powder coated lead bullets.
If these numbers are true, you should be able to push the powder covered at a guesstimated 2350fps from a regular 24" barrel. It should be slower from a 16" barrel.
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 28, 2023, 09:46 PMWrong time of the year to ask questions it seems 😄
Nah, the info you are looking for is like asking for how long and at what temperature do you sous vide a porcupine fillet for ;)
It looks as though you can safely get to 2100fps with 36gr S335. I would start at 34gr and check speed. Once you have that info QL should be able to give a better charge for a safe day to day load.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jan 04, 2024, 10:58 AMIt looks as though you can safely get to 2100fps with 36gr S335. I would start at 34gr and check speed. Once you have that info QL should be able to give a better charge for a safe day to day load.
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Tripodmvr - Thank you, been waiting for you to help. I will load up in an hr or two, (like as in REALLY been waiting for you)
My Quick load has gone from my PC and will not reload ? I tried various things, but no go. Got a PC guy coming in tomorrow to do a few things incuding sorting QL out.
...................but at least I can start now.
Your max MV will be determined by the max pressures the bullets can take. Above their yield strength, accuracy suffers.
Do you think gas checks may increase pressure max just by their nature
Quote from: Treeman on Jan 07, 2024, 09:34 AMDo you think gas checks may increase pressure max just by their nature
Yes, they help a lot because they prevent the lead from melting /deforming.
Quote from: Ds J on Jan 08, 2024, 01:19 AMQuote from: Treeman on Jan 07, 2024, 09:34 AMDo you think gas checks may increase pressure max just by their nature
Yes, they help a lot because they prevent the lead from melting /deforming.
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But that is achieved by the powder coating ?
Quote from: Treeman on Jan 08, 2024, 01:30 PMBut that is achieved by the powder coating ?
My 2c is that PC is unlikely to have prevent flame cutting or erosion as it burns away far below the melting point of lead. It does however reduce/eliminate bore leading up to some velocity level as it is harder than lead.
The GC, typically being made of copper, is harder and and has a higher melting temp than lead so prevents the base from being eroded and doesn't allow blow by. My Lyman cast bullet handbook has a section that discusses when and why you should use them.
When I was developing cast rifle loads an apparently knowledgeable chap on CastBoolits told me I should be able to do without GS on my .270 Win bullets up to something around 2400 fps. I didn't get round to trying that as I landed on a really accurate load at 2000ish but will give it a try soon.
I was also told somewhere, someday, someplace that it seems to be that a good powder coat is enough protection against gas burning pretty much up to the expected velocities for cast bullets in all handguns and would likely be good enough for rifles unless trying to set records for achieved speeds. I can not recall the source but it went somewhere along the lines of " you not going to find lead cast bullet accuracy above the velocities that PC can handle the gas burn"
Perhaps I got some of the info cross wired ?
Quote from: Treeman on Jan 08, 2024, 05:08 PMI was also told somewhere, someday, someplace that it seems to be that a good powder coat is enough protection against gas burning pretty much up to the expected velocities for cast bullets in all handguns and would likely be good enough for rifles unless trying to set records for achieved speeds. I can not recall the source but it went somewhere along the lines of " you not going to find lead cast bullet accuracy above the velocities that PC can handle the gas burn"
Perhaps I got some of the info cross wired ?
It may be that it's true and it will be pretty cool if it is as gas checks are another step and cost. I'll test some unchecked bullets and report back.
This is interesting
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/my-quest-for-speed-and-accuracy-with-powder-coated-cast-bullets.4143/
Will these lead bullets be better or less accurate than the milsurp type stuff we got given with my .303?
Quote from: JamesNotBond on Jan 09, 2024, 10:20 AMWill these lead bullets be better or less accurate than the milsurp type stuff we got given with my .303?
That's a bit of a length of string question as it depends on the quality of both options. Carefully made lead bullets of appropriate hardness travelling at appropriate velocities can be very accurate and have significant terminal edfects. In the early part of the previous century people like Pope and Louverin shot almost unbelievable 1000 yard groups in Schutzen competitions. The castboolits forum is a good place to absorb some of the wisdom on cast rifle bullets remaining in the heads of old timers who know how.
This went a lot easier than I thought, so far.
I loaded up a batch of test rounds, to just off the lands -COL = touching lands less a fraction.
Started at 34 gr S335, 35 gr and 36 gr
First mistake was that I did not measure magazine length, so rounds were by some miracle just able to fit into mag with some bumping, pushing. After each shot I had to bump or rattle the next round up in mag - it was that close a fit.
Secondly I shot at 50 m, because I was really expecting from what I had heard, to perhaps not be on page with first tester rounds.
Imagine my surprise! First shots in Yellow highlight. 34 Gr
Third tester lower group at 36 gr
I had to discard the 35 gr group because I again FORGOT how fast the .303 barrel overheats and starts string shots, 4 slow wait between shots and still the second group was not usable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53463392305_19f3ab8e09_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2psnRTX)20240114_130432 (https://flic.kr/p/2psnRTX) by David Frank Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/183810052@N07/), on Flickr
Nice!
Any idea what the velocity was?
Just over 2moa?
Quote from: Treeman on Jan 14, 2024, 02:00 PMSecondly I shot at 50 m, because I was really expecting from what I had heard, to perhaps not be on page with first tester rounds.
Imagine my surprise!
Since going down the rifle bullet casting rabbit hole I've come to the conclusion that much of what is spouted about the subject is from people who have little if any direct personal of making the bullets or developing loads for them.
I now have to ask - did you record speed?
Quote from: janfred on Jan 14, 2024, 03:25 PMAny idea what the velocity was?
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No I do not Know :-X
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jan 14, 2024, 06:52 PMI now have to ask - did you record speed?
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Oom Drie, when I arose to go to range, I awoke, took range box,target stand, rifle and test ammunition - got in car and drove off. When I got to the range I wondered about things like targets, batteries and had I paid my membership fees this year.
I do not think I have reloaded in over a year and I do not think I have used the club range in twice that time. I just went into a dead zone in that regard, happens when you have 2 - 300 rounds already loaded and you a hunter not compo shooter
It can be said I buy new rifles so as to have something to reload for.
Regardless of above, your said "correct load" and result were spot on, the 36 gr suggested is the winner. I will now load some loads in half mm shorter increments to see if there is a betterment in group - I can not load even .2 mm longer. I will be sure to have chroni and batteries for the event.
Keep us posted. Measure the water volume of a few fired cases as well as the barrel length to a cocked action (removes the firing pin) with a cleaning rod.
Also record COL from base to tip of bullet.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jan 14, 2024, 09:14 PMKeep us posted. Measure the water volume of a few fired cases as well as the barrel length to a cocked action (removes the firing pin) with a cleaning rod.
Also record COL from base to tip of bullet.
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Shall do so.