I suppose I could go look it uo, but leaving for work when question arose.
If a heavier bullet of same caliber is used, it will drop more than a lighter bullet EVEN if they are traveling at the same velocity.
Velocity is an constant, therefore the heavier bullet should have same POI if traveling at same velocity ?
The mass of the bullet will influence barrel vibration so I don't think you can assume that bullets of different weight will land in the same spot if pushed at the same velocity.
I think Treeman is referring to vertical drop.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Apr 18, 2024, 09:13 AMI think Treeman is referring to vertical drop.
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Yes I thought of wording after posting.
SHALL WE SAY : will each bullet drop the same 2 " at a 100 m - give or take a few mm for shape of projectile.
Will a hunter have the same trajectory for both bullets - say out to 300 m
Quote from: Treeman on Apr 18, 2024, 07:46 AMIf a heavier bullet of same caliber is used, it will drop more than a lighter bullet EVEN if they are traveling at the same velocity.
Not if the heavier bullet has a higher BC. If the heavier bullet has a higher BC, the lighter bullet will drop more.
At the same velocity with the same BC, bullet drop is the same irrespective of bullet weight.
Quote from: Administrator on Apr 18, 2024, 04:32 PMAt the same velocity with the same BC, bullet drop is the same irrespective of bullet weight.
Which means if a .22lr bullet and a 4-bore ball have the same BC and the same velocity, the drop will be the same.
Maybe here is a way to explain it:
Stage 1: Assume you fire a heavy bullet and a light bullet perfectly horizontally at exactly the same instant. They will drop and strike the ground at exactly the same instant in time irrespective of relative velocities or BC's. It is the same as holding both bullets in your hand and dropping them together - both will reach the ground together.
After that it gets a bit more complicated............
Stage 2: If launched at the same velocity, the bullet with the higher BC (typically, but not always the heavier one because BC is dependant on bullet shape) will travel further from origin before striking the ground because it will have a flatter trajectory. They will however still strike the ground at the same moment in time after firing.
Stage 3: Assuming both bullets are approximately same shape, the heavy bullet (typically better BC) is normally fired at a lower intial velocity than a lighter bullet so the lighter bullet starts off maintaining a flatter trajectory than the heavy one. The light (stubby, poorer BC) bullet will slow down at a faster rate and at a certain point, both will be travelling at the same velocity whereafter the heavy bullet (better BC) will overtake the light one. The bullet with the better BC (typically heavier) will maintain its velocity better.
Be aware that round nose bullets will always be heavier than then a spitzer bullet of the same length. RN bullets are normally designed specifically to get maximum weight that will stabilse in a barrel of given twist rate.
All of the above is pretty much meaningless at responsible/normal hunting distances of 200m or less because very few of us can shoot that accurately under field conditions.
Quote from: BBCT on Apr 18, 2024, 08:47 PMMaybe here is a way to explain it:
Stage 1: Assume you fire a heavy bullet and a light bullet perfectly horizontally at exactly the same instant. They will drop and strike the ground at exactly the same instant in time irrespective of relative velocities or BC's. It is the same as holding both bullets in your hand and dropping them together - both will reach the ground together.
After that it gets a bit more complicated............
Stage 2: If launched at the same velocity, the bullet with the higher BC (typically, but not always the heavier one because BC is dependant on bullet shape) will travel further from origin before striking the ground because it will have a flatter trajectory. They will however still strike the ground at the same moment in time after firing.
Stage 3: Assuming both bullets are approximately same shape, the heavy bullet (typically better BC) is normally fired at a lower intial velocity than a lighter bullet so the lighter bullet starts off maintaining a flatter trajectory than the heavy one. The light (stubby, poorer BC) bullet will slow down at a faster rate and at a certain point, both will be travelling at the same velocity whereafter the heavy bullet (better BC) will overtake the light one. The bullet with the better BC (typically heavier) will maintain its velocity better.
Be aware that round nose bullets will always be heavier than then a spitzer bullet of the same length. RN bullets are normally designed specifically to get maximum weight that will stabilse in a barrel of given twist rate.
All of the above is pretty much meaningless at responsible/normal hunting distances of 200m or less because very few of us can shoot that accurately under field conditions.
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This is what i thought I knew and wanted conformation on.
If it were not for aerodynamics, a feather a golf ball and a bullet of same weight would touch earth at same time if dropped from same height.
In shooting the faster one will travel further in same time, but the drop would be the same for the given time of travel.
I remember a youtube video about a feather and a ball falling in a vacuum from the same height. They touched earth at basically the same time.
Aerodynamics/wind resistance makes all the difference.
Quote from: Ds J on Apr 19, 2024, 12:48 PMI remember a youtube video about a feather and a ball falling in a vacuum from the same height. They touched earth at basically the same time.
Aerodynamics/wind resistance makes all the difference.
The astronauts did that exact experiment on the moon with an eagle feather.
Quote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 02:30 PMThe astronauts did that exact experiment on the moon with an eagle feather.
Oh dear, another one who believes the moon landings were real. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Apr 19, 2024, 02:55 PMQuote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 02:30 PMThe astronauts did that exact experiment on the moon with an eagle feather.
Oh dear, another one who believes the moon landings were real. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum.
Oh dear, another one who believe the moon landings were fake. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum...
SO ! Let me see if I get agreement.
Shall we make the distance 250 m, because only after about that distance do we really begin to see the real curve in trajectory using common modern velocities.(Also the distance I cut my clients off at)
If I can get a 160 gr .270 bullet up to similar velocities as what I shoot a 150 gr bullet, I will not lose much any if trajectory at 250 yards.
My Quick Load packed up - I miss it.
Quote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 03:19 PMQuote from: oafpatroll on Apr 19, 2024, 02:55 PMQuote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 02:30 PMThe astronauts did that exact experiment on the moon with an eagle feather.
Oh dear, another one who believes the moon landings were real. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum.
Oh dear, another one who believe the moon landings were fake. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum...
Oops, done it again, I need to remember to insert emojis. That was an effort at humour. I like me a conspiracy theory about as much as a digital prostate exam.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Apr 19, 2024, 05:01 PMQuote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 03:19 PMQuote from: oafpatroll on Apr 19, 2024, 02:55 PMQuote from: janfred on Apr 19, 2024, 02:30 PMThe astronauts did that exact experiment on the moon with an eagle feather.
Oh dear, another one who believes the moon landings were real. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum.
Oh dear, another one who believe the moon landings were fake. We shouldn't allow this sort of conspiracy theory stuff on the forum...
Oops, done it again, I need to remember to insert emojis. That was an effort at humour. I like me a conspiracy theory about as much as a digital prostate exam.
I did get the humour, thankfully. My attempt at humour seemed to have missed the mark. You do strike me as someone that can look at evidence, assign a value to it and decide if it fits the conclusion.
That said; the trajectory depends in the launch angle. Traditional ballistic solvers work on drop from a horizontal angle. They do not take account of a launch angle above the horizontal. This does not matter for short ranges up to about 600m. Further than that, the errors compound.
Gold, there's a Monty Python sketch in this somewhere!
Heavy bullets have an edge over lighter bullets because they have more momentum and more wind resistance. That is why the 50BMG is used for long and ultra long range sniping instead of the lighter calibres.
https://youtu.be/W4WEAv1CjtM
Quote from: Treeman on Apr 19, 2024, 03:23 PMMy Quick Load packed up - I miss it.
Still available for purchase in US$
QuickLOAD V3.9 (https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/hartmut-broemel/)
or GBP
QuickLOAD Ballistic Software (https://quickload.co.uk/?currency=GBP)
Unless you are in Germany - and contact the author / developer of the program
Hartmut G. Brömel (https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=36912)
Why not try GRT .. Gordon's Reloading Tool - FREE ..in some respects better than QL
GRT (https://www.grtools.de/doku.php)
Usere Manual and Handbook (https://grtools.de/doku.php?id=en:doku:start)
Tutorials on JARACAL
GRT Gordon's Reloading Tool Community (https://www.jaracal.com/viewtopic.php?t=72811)
Quickload vs Gordon Reloading Tool (https://www.jaracal.com/viewtopic.php?t=85885)