Hi Folks, what are primers made of?
I have thrown a handful of primers into the bin with. 22 cases, and thought they would stick to a magnet, but they don't?
Most metallic primer cups are made of cartridge brass; steel may also be used. Similar to cups for cartridge cases or bullet jackets, primer cups are produced on a cupping press. After cupping, the parts are tumbled to remove sharp edges at the open end of the cups.
What is a primer cap made of?
A primer cap is a stamping made from rolled copper-alloy sheet. The sheet is fed into a small stamping press where a multiple die set produces more than a dozen caps on each stroke. The caps are often nickel-plated. Primer caps are made in different diameters for different applications
My spent primers are sold with my spent brass, never been told off yet. When the 5 lt bucket is full I sell.
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 09, 2023, 06:23 PMMy spent primers are sold with my spent brass, never been told off yet. When the 5 lt bucket is full I sell.
What does a 5l bucket bring and do they take it as brass or mixed?
Most modern primers are made from brass.
The shiny silver ones are nickel plated brass.
Some older primers have a more reddish colour, indicating copper or maybe a higher % of Cu in the alloy.
Nickel is magnetic, so if the primers are nickel plated, they might be attracted by a magnet. The plating is very thin, so don't expect too much magnetic attraction.
I see steel is mentioned as primer material. I have never seen it in civilian small bore ammo.
Thanks Folks, it makes sense. Copper doesn't rust, and therefore the life expectancy is longer. It is also softer, which should ensure better ignition.
And now I have to sort them out by hand ;D ;D
Quote from: oafpatroll on Nov 09, 2023, 06:39 PMQuote from: Treeman on Nov 09, 2023, 06:23 PMMy spent primers are sold with my spent brass, never been told off yet. When the 5 lt bucket is full I sell.
What does a 5l bucket bring and do they take it as brass or mixed?
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I got jut under R400 for my bucket and just over 300 another time.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 12, 2023, 12:27 AMThanks Folks, it makes sense. Copper doesn't rust, and therefore the life expectancy is longer. It is also softer, which should ensure better ignition.
And now I have to sort them out by hand ;D ;D
But why? Ok, OCD may explain it. ;D
Most bullet jackets look like copper due to their reddish colour. Actually, they are made of "gilding metal" which is still brass but with a lower zinc content, about 5%.
If you intend selling the 22 cases as scrap brass, the primers will not change the composition of your scrap brass bucket.
I save the .22 cases because I want to make .224" bullets from them. Still worrying to get dies for it.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 15, 2023, 03:55 PMI save the .22 cases because I want to make .224" bullets from them. Still worrying to get dies for it.
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There are a few guys in RSA who have made the dies for bullet swaging - its seems to be not so complex a thing to make, it's just that there is almost no call for it so few machinist have had to do it, so very few people do it, circle of supply and demand.
Corbin Bullet Swaging dies are the world supplier.
If you have a sample, its rather easy from there forward. I have shot many of these swaged bullets and they were fkn terrible, I do not know if it was the product or the operator of the press, but they shot a A4 group .
I had about 300, I ended up pulling the bullets and reusing the cases.
I imagine that in a combat, survival situation where a bang and cover fire was primary use they would be usable, but after 30 m range they were all over.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 15, 2023, 03:55 PMI save the .22 cases because I want to make .224" bullets from them. Still worrying to get dies for it.
I have shot a thousand 55 gn .224 bullets made by Geoff Cilliers (Ammocil brand). Geoff bought a bunch of new 22 cases, that were not rimmed or loaded yet. He did moly-coat the brass jackets. They worked beautifully, with sub-MOA accuracy from my rifle.
Making your own jackets from used .22LR brass will require drawing and cleaning the cases. The primer residue sitting in the cases contains an abrasive compound, usually ground glass. This is difficult to clean out perfectly, so a few granules of this stuff will make it into your drawing and especially the swaging dies. The swaging dies are critical in determining the final bullet diameter, so any wear there will make larger than spec bullets. People who have done this say your dies will last for about 10 000 bullets, before the wear is too much. Take the cost of die wear into account when doing your feasibility study.
The only reasons these bullets will not be accurate are the following:
1. Diameter mismatched. (Die spec or wear.)
2. Base deformation due to firing pin indentation on rim. (Very hard to get out.)
3. Velocity, spin rate or pressure too high for the thin jackets.
4. Air bubbles in lead core. (Operator error.)
5. Bullets too long for twist rate. (Unlikely with a 55gn bullet in a 1:12" twist barrel.)
6. Lack of uniformity due to mixed 22 brass used. (You need to sort your brass.)
If we can find someone to produce good swaging dies locally and at a decent price, I may be interested too. Corbin may be the standard, but last time I checked their prices were much higher than what I deemed acceptable.
Let's see where this goes?
I got to play with a friend's swaging setup very briefly and my biggest take away was that you need a meneer of a press which is a major cost to take into account. I'd love to try my hand at it but the costs are prohibitive.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Nov 16, 2023, 10:17 AMI got to play with a friend's swaging setup very briefly and my biggest take away was that you need a meneer of a press which is a major cost to take into account. I'd love to try my hand at it but the costs are prohibitive.
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I would think hydraulic is the only way, even if manual hydraulic (like a jack).
The bullets I had were moly coated and plain, I recall that the .22 case bullets had a very distinct color of their own. I think the bullets were made locally and from a supplier in Durban who tried this route about 12 years ago.
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 16, 2023, 01:50 PMQuote from: oafpatroll on Nov 16, 2023, 10:17 AMI got to play with a friend's swaging setup very briefly and my biggest take away was that you need a meneer of a press which is a major cost to take into account. I'd love to try my hand at it but the costs are prohibitive.
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I would think hydraulic is the only way, even if manual hydraulic (like a jack).
I don't think that's necesary. You can get a hell of a lot of leverage from a 400mm handle. It was the rigidity of the thing to handle the force I was referring to and that came from it being massive. The main shafts were like MX bike forks and had long full circumference phosphor bronze bushes.
Corbin (?) and some other companies make dies to form bullets from .22 cases, and they fit in regular presses.
The cases get annealed, pressed in three rotations, and one has a bullet of the wanted weight. It seems easy; I am not sure that it actually is that easy.
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 16, 2023, 01:50 PMQuote from: oafpatroll on Nov 16, 2023, 10:17 AMI got to play with a friend's swaging setup very briefly and my biggest take away was that you need a meneer of a press which is a major cost to take into account. I'd love to try my hand at it but the costs are prohibitive.
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I would think hydraulic is the only way, even if manual hydraulic (like a jack).
Have a look at the Corbin swaging press. The extra force it can generate comes mainly from the much shorter ram travel.
The .224 swaging dies intended to be used with .22LR cases usually come with treads and instructions for use in a normal (but sturdy) reloading press. The RCBS Rock Chucker would be a prime candidate.