Yup ! Buffalo hunt with a .308.
One of the lighties I taught to hunt, first shooting to first animal has a farm which has numerous game farms around and against their land, sometimes interesting animals just show up on their farm. Some of these animals like the waterbuck and Impala have taken up residence and now walk in herds on their land.
With careful management and only two hunters on 3 farms the pickings can be good.
Recently a young buffalo bull came onto the farm and took offence to the dairy cattle which resulted in land owner reaching behind seat and putting a 30 06 bullet into its head - and another and then a few more.
I gather it eventually got so heavy that it could not walk and the farmer drove up to it and finally killed it.
Last Wednesday a small heard of buffalo were spotted on the farm and despite looking into it, no game farm seems to be asking around about missing buffalo. The animals go into some real dense Cape Coastal Forest area which sees no use on the farm and also into some Government Reserve land and just disappear for a while and then reappear later. The diary and beef farms have no time nor place for the buffalo which seem to cause a lot of shit, they also cause the workers to not want to work the lands.
The farmers son to whom I refer to is now 17 and full of dreams and plans, one of them appears to accidently "have" to shoot a buffalo because it charged him - "HERO" status acquired. The lightie has not said this, but the messages inquiring into "solid" bullets and "all metal" got me alerted. The other night I was asked about buffalo and "do you think a .308 will drop a buff? head shot Uncle Dave" as if the head shot would be better.
I explained that any .308 bullet would be hard pressed to head shot a buffalo, not to mention stopping one that has put its head down.
I have no doubt that I would kill a buff with a .308, using everything I know and a shot behind the shoulders with a heavy premium bullet - I am sure the animal will die like any other lung shot animal. Some minutes + that is. Would I fetch the .308 if going on a buff hunt? No! I have better suited calibers.
All the above being said, I knew (he may still be alive) an old English farmer who had shot with a .270 Win many buff, " oh Dave many of them, we did not count back those days, it was just a job that needed doing sometimes". When I asked about the bullets he answered that he used the ones they used to sell at Wolwe Fontein Gun shop. The shop closed in the 60 ties :o. Evidently buffalo roamed from Addo and some other area into the farming areas of DaggaFontein - Kommadagga regularly back then, elephant were still being hunted - destroyed in the area as well.
I have no reason to not believe the old man, he was not showing off, he just said when he saw my .270 that the .270 had always been his rifle, and that he had shot a few buffalo in his younger days with the .270 Win, even showed me where the buff would always end up going to on the one hillside, every time they came to area they would gravitate to one part of the land.
What do you guys think about a .308 Win for buffalo ?
First off, I'm a huge fan of the .308 - it can do anything that most of us will ever need or want from a rifle calibre.
I'm sure it's possible to kill a buffalo with a .308. Stories abound of shooting cattle with a .22 rimfire to the head and the leap from cattle to buffalo in terms of overall size, weight, bone structure etc. (let's leave temperament out of the discussion at this stage) is smaller than the leap from .22RF to .308.
Having said that, I don't think it be would a "good idea" and I would far rather have something more substantial than a .308 by my side, primarily because of the temperament that I left out earlier.
Buffalo hunting is too much of a contact sport to be entered into lightly, even when you have the great 308 by your side.
I remember a story published in Magnum, where the author told of shooting a few buffalo near the Addo with a 7x57. Good shot placement is the answer. So, yes a 308 will do it. Will I use that calibre - noooo, I have a 375 that is better suited for the job.
As much respect as I have for the .308, I have way more respect for the sharp end of a buffalo.
For me, the least I will be comfortable with is my .416 Rigby, and even that might feel small when SHTF.
All replies have a dash of nudge and wink ;D
Ya, bit worried that the lightie is going to do something "clever"
I have actually phoned his mother regarding the subject and asked her t just mention "by the way" that she was just making sure he understands that there is to be no considerations given to even trying that stunt.
Testosterone is powerful stupid medicine. At 17 it is much likely to be overdosed on.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Apr 19, 2023, 12:58 PMTestosterone is powerful stupid medicine. At 17 it is much likely to be overdosed on.
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Ya !, he is a REALLY nice boy, but smart and smart arse are close relatives.
The thought does occur to me that you may have rubbed off on the boy Tree :o
Quote from: JamesNotBond on Apr 23, 2023, 08:55 PMThe thought does occur to me that you may have rubbed off on the boy Tree :o
Well, that is a frightening thought... ;D
I do recall having read somewhere of a missionary who shot many buffalo with a 30-06. The story goes that he would stand very close to a thick tree (I wonder why?) and wait till a buff looked at him, head held high, then shoot it up the nostrils. That should work, most of the time. If it didn't, well, I suppose that's what the tree was for.
Comparing the length (SD) of a 220gn RN .308 bullet to a 300gn RN .375 bullet, gives me the idea that, with a strong enough bullet, they should both be capable of very decent penetration.
No, don't try that with a 308. Kid's mother will not take the result well.
Quote from: 223 on May 24, 2023, 09:59 PMQuote from: JamesNotBond on Apr 23, 2023, 08:55 PMThe thought does occur to me that you may have rubbed off on the boy Tree :o
Well, that is a frightening thought... ;D
I do recall having read somewhere of a missionary who shot many buffalo with a 30-06. The story goes that he would stand very close to a thick tree (I wonder why?) and wait till a buff looked at him, head held high, then shoot it up the nostrils. That should work, most of the time. If it didn't, well, I suppose that's what the tree was for.
The missionary in the story used a 30-30 lever action ;)
Yes, a 308 would kill a buffalo if the shot placement is correct. That goes for a head shot too. Ask the troepies of the Bush war what they did not shoot with an R1.
As pointed out many times, it is a wise principal to use enough gun, especially on things like buffalo.
Quote from: Ds J on Jun 17, 2023, 08:20 AMQuote from: 223 on May 24, 2023, 09:59 PMQuote from: JamesNotBond on Apr 23, 2023, 08:55 PMThe thought does occur to me that you may have rubbed off on the boy Tree :o
Well, that is a frightening thought... ;D
I do recall having read somewhere of a missionary who shot many buffalo with a 30-06. The story goes that he would stand very close to a thick tree (I wonder why?) and wait till a buff looked at him, head held high, then shoot it up the nostrils. That should work, most of the time. If it didn't, well, I suppose that's what the tree was for.
The missionary in the story used a 30-30 lever action ;)
Yes, a 308 would kill a buffalo if the shot placement is correct. That goes for a head shot too. Ask the troepies of the Bush war what they did not shoot with an R1.
As pointed out many times, it is a wise principal to use enough gun, especially on things like buffalo.
In "Fanie se veldskooldae", the author states that his dad shot the buffalo on foot, with open sights. He used either a Martini or a 303. He was a child and was left in camp because it was too dangerous.
13 more buffalo have wondered onto the farm and the litie has requested permission to hunt one. He posted today that he is "just waiting for the go ahead" from Mom.
I am wandering how this is going to pan out, "interesting times" comes to mind.
Quote from: Treeman on Jun 19, 2023, 09:40 PM13 more buffalo have wondered onto the farm and the litie has requested permission to hunt one. He posted today that he is "just waiting for the go ahead" from Mom.
I am wandering how this is going to pan out, "interesting times" comes to mind.
Would she seriously consider it?
Call the mother (again if necessary) and beg for her son's life. Send her the video clip of the PH who got gorged whilst backing up with a 30-06.
Maybe they would be willing to sell the buffalo, or have then hunted properly and earn the money?
The mind boggles. I sincerely hope the mom can have her mind changed.
Reminds me of the time when i was 14 and my mom's friend fell on hard times. To help her out she paid off the o/s balance on the friend's husband's XS1100 Yamaha and gave it to me to look after. Sounds about as sensible an idea as the buffalo hunting one.
Any news on this?
Quote from: Ds J on Jun 24, 2023, 11:01 PMAny news on this?
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The litie himself has not done anything testing, but his Uncle and a mate shot 2 of the animals, 300 Win Mag
Quote from: Treeman on Jun 28, 2023, 03:48 PMQuote from: Ds J on Jun 24, 2023, 11:01 PMAny news on this?
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The litie himself has not done anything testing, but his Uncle and a mate shot 2 of the animals, 300 Win Mag
Thanks! I really hope he doesn't try something stupid.
He did ! I suppose the temptation was just too much. Seems the boys went for a drive into evening and came across the Buff among the cattle and decided against 300 years of buff experience to try take one. The lighty ( I have been told "don't call me little lightie") ;D took a shot on the buff and it dropped on the spot.
His exact words on shot placement are "shoulder closer to the neck middle of body". Distance of shot 140 m - Norma Oryx 180 gr bullet released at 2650 fps. Howa .308 Win standard form with silencer.
Well educated well brought up boy, but really a stupid thing to do. As much as I like this kid, (suppose love him by now), this was stupid. This would have been stupid in the wide open plains, but to try this in a limited space environment with staff and houses and a few million in diary cattle walking around, naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
The shot worked, the warnings were in vain and no one got hurt, but think about it, if that buff had not fallen, the damage it would have done in those cattle herds, what if it wondered into the workers home areas ? I am told, have read, seen videos of wounded buff a few days later - mad angry in pain just plowing through people. They attack the cattle and even cars when they are hurt.
This boy took a chance and got lucky - lucky is all it is.
If he reads this he may be angry with me, but in years to come he will understand how dangerous this was for those around him on the farm.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53152480030_8137cb86e2_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYUmvu)buff 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2oYUmvu) by Cody Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196777865@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151477047_0bcd3693e0_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPdmF)buff (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPdmF) by Cody Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196777865@N04/), on Flickr
I have blurred faces, just to protect the lads, they are good lads, really they are.
Fkn lucky that it was a good bullet at a low velocity at a medium distance, bullet was able to work properly.
Glad no harm came to anyone or any of the livestock. It's the kind of thing one can easily imagine having turned out very badly indeed.
Decent bull!!!!!!
Bottom pic shows a wound to the head. Finishing shot?
I see blood, but can not tell, did not ask. I also saw that and thought it had run from shoulder down ?
Makes sense though to have done a safety shot, in this day and age with having 6-7 weeks of the buff being on farm,that the lightie Googled the shit outa shooting buff before venturing out to do so.
Unless the photos are inverted, which seems more likely, the buff also rolled over after being shot.
I have very little info, other than it was shot at night from the Land Cruiser, it was likely rolled over by the staff for day time photo.
I received some wors from this animal and found it to be very much like any other Kudu wors ?
Please check the second photo, behind the eye and before the buffalo's right ear. There is a hole which look like an exit wound. He stated "shoulder closer to the neck, middle of body". I doubt that there is any logical explanation for a 308 bullet to travel from the neck to exit through the skull - especially after the shot went into lower neck area. Hence I deduce it just have been a finishing shot.
Secondly, please have a look at the colour and texture of the blood. It does not look like blood which had run after a while, but rather like fresh blood from an open wound.
What, you mean you can take out buffalo with a 308.... ;D and just as I sold my rifle!!
I just phoned the kid at school now and asked. No head shot because they were caping it. The animal fell facing uphill then tried to get up and fell backwards ending up legs in the air.
It bled lung blood out the nose and mouth which it lay in. The animal was then rolled and moved a few times for photo's.
So that is lung blood that it lay in. Head downwards on a slight hill.
Quote from: Treeman on Sep 01, 2023, 06:54 PMI just phoned the kid at school now and asked. No head shot because they were caping it. The animal fell facing uphill then tried to get up and fell backwards ending up legs in the air.
It bled lung blood out the nose and mouth which it lay in. The animal was then rolled and moved a few times for photo's.
So that is lung blood that it lay in. Head downwards on a slight hill.
Thanks a lot! Lung blood makes sense.
I find myself impressed and appalled at the same time. This could have worked out really badly but I'm pleased it worked out well. How often do we all say: "It's all about bullet placement"?
I think Norma Oryx is an under-estimated or maybe under-appreciated bullet but it did the job with obviously a fair amount of knowledge, skill and maybe experience on the part of the triggerman (Treeman's protégé). Having said that, the margin for error must have been quite slim............
Quote from: BBCT on Sep 02, 2023, 09:07 PMHaving said that, the margin for error must have been quite slim............
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You far too polite. It was a fk up that missed a beat and the shooter may now thinks he is above the knowledge built from the year 1700's by blood spilt under the African sky, by men who underestimated the power of African beasts.
I am fond of this boy, I hope this does not make him over estimate himself and under estimate the power of the beast - I have been almost done once by a bush buck and once by a bush pig, with a few close calls by both and a wart hog that were not sooooo bad. Those little beasts gave me some and much respect.
Yes the bullet has proven itself on Waterbuck and Kudu 50-60 x now + a buffalo.
I mentorship was obviously not that good if he did what he did ???????
In my defence - young male, rifle and wide open spaces - fk that, woulda done the same I guess, buy Ye'! Lets leave it there.
Quote from: Treeman on Sep 02, 2023, 11:04 PMI mentorship was obviously not that good if he did what he did ???????
In my defence - young male, rifle and wide open spaces - fk that, woulda done the same I guess, buy Ye'! Lets leave it there.
Maybe, one day, you could write a fictional story about "Bullet proof Dave and the daggaboy" .
Positive experiences aren't the ones that you learn the most valuable lessons from.
This has been a serious discussion. Let me lighten the mood.
Hy kort net 'n goue tand of twee.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Sep 04, 2023, 08:53 AMThis has been a serious discussion. Let me lighten the mood.
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I am sure that thing said "Jou ma se p*****" to the guy that shot it.
Big difference between Cape and Cape Flats... ;)
Quote from: 223 on Sep 04, 2023, 09:21 PMBig difference between Cape and Cape Flats... ;)
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But the teeth tell the heritage. ;D