I just debugged another one of those 'gunsmith oversight' issues.
I'd bought a donor action, sent it to have a rifle built around it.
Fired two shots. Only two shots because of a different 'gunsmith oversight' - very bad fitting rail, I've already complained about that in another thread.
Came home with it, opened the bolt, and noticed the handle was moving but the bolt body was not. Phoned gunsmith, he explained that the handle is screwed on the bolt, and the loctite may have come loose, I should take it back and he would apply more loctite.
I said no problem, loctite I have, and know how to use, so I applied the loctite, screwed the bolt handle down to where it needs to be so the bolt can enter the action at the correct angle, and I assumed problem solved.
Took the rifle to the range to set zero, after correcting gunsmith oversight [ bad fitting, loose rail ].
No ignition. Firing pin drops, not hitting the primer. Stripped the bolt at the range, couldn't see what the problem was, packed it up.
After stripping the bolt, and seeing how the firing pin protrusion is actually adjustable on this, I measured protrusion and it was in spec, .045" . Then I was thinking along the lines of new spring.
After a while of prodding and poking, I noticed that the bolt handle stop was not against the action, about 10 degrees short of full close. What this does is prevent the firing pin from dropping fully, the cocking sleeve impacts on the bolt sleeve in the wrong place, so the pin was not hitting the primer at all.
The bolt was so tight at that point it felt like a hard stop.
Applying marking blue showed the bolt body was binding in the action.
The reason the handle came loose in the first place was probably due to me closing a bit past the point causing it to bind, and the force of opening it loosened the handle on the threads.
The reason it fired the first two shots was likely the bolt handle angle was a few degrees advanced out of place, giving the pin just enough protrusion to ignite the primer.
I used valve grinding compound on the bolt body around the section where it was binding, and got it to the point where the bolt handle is now closing on the bolt body.
Primer protrusion is measured and in spec, the cocking sleeve engaging the bolt sleeve correctly.
Now it just needs a good clean to make sure all the valve compound is gone.
You sound like me on a good fix it night.
For proper headspace, the gunsmith should have closed the bolt on the gauges. As he did not find the binding problem, I suspect that you may be warping the action when torque is applied to the action screws.
Might be something for you to check before making irreversible changes to your action.
The rifle was built in one shop. Chambered, fitted, stocked, bedded and torqued by the shop.
I don't think a single action solid bottom action can bend under action screw torque.
I can understand how the problem was overlooked, if the bolt handle was already loose against the bolt body past a certain point on close, then engaged the bolt again when that point was returned to, it would have "closed" with the lugs 60% engaged, which is the point at which it was binding, and opened fine.
Any way, I've fixed it, I need to test it, it's just another lesson learned.
I do want to put a pin through the bolt handle shroud where the bolt threads in, because if it comes loose, it will be possible to put a round in the chamber, close the bolt handle without the bolt body turning and lugs engaging, and the firing pin can still reach the primer.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 05, 2025, 11:44 PMFor proper headspace, the gunsmith should have closed the bolt on the gauges. As he did not find the binding problem, I suspect that you may be warping the action when torque is applied to the action screws.
Might be something for you to check before making irreversible changes to your action.
It's a simple test, even after the fact, release the action screws, and see if there is any difference to how the bolt turns.
I've got the slightest resistance at the end of the bolt travel right now. If the action screws are bending the action, and I release them, the bolt should drop freely.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 05, 2025, 11:44 PMI suspect that you may be warping the action when torque is applied to the action screws.
I've released the action screws, the bolt rotation doesn't change, It's the same torqued as un-torqued.
Perhaps just let us know what action you used.
RSA single shot, bought second hand, donor rifle was chambered in .308.
The rifle went directly from the seller to the gunsmith.
I'd imagine that must be on the high end of rigid actions.
I photo showing where the bolt body binds would be helpful.
Cant be a standard bolt. They are cast and machined. None of the 4 models currently in my safes have a screw-in bolt handle.Also, the slop inherent in the design precludes any binding in the action.
A common mod done to RSA actions is to drill and tap two aditional holes in front of the trigger in line with the holes of the trigger guard. Some users was of the opinion that using the tang and recoil lug screw points would warp the actions.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 06, 2025, 06:06 PMNone of the 4 models currently in my safes have a screw-in bolt handle
This bolt handle is not screw in.
The whole bolt body is 'screw in'.
(https://media.invisioncic.com/l87729/monthly_2023_12/IMG_9316.jpg.87b558ea7fe9c24d335277939745b5e0.jpg)
This is exactly it. The bolt handle is on a collar. The bolt body is screwed into that collar. On the underside, there is a recess in that collar that the cocking sleeve slots into. If the bolt/collar is turning against the bolt without the bolt moving, ie : screwing the bolt further into the collar, the cocking sleeve can travel fully forward with the lugs not engaged, or at the very least not fully engaged.
Can you show on the photo where the bolt body was binding?
from the bolt collar, for a 3cm distance, over the width of the bottom of the action
an area of contact, not a point
what is the significance ?
I am trying to get my head around how your action or bolt got so warped that the bolt binds in the action. How bad was your gunsmith?
In my experience, there are generous tolerances around the bolt to avoid this exact scenario. Added to this is that I have never seen a RSA bolt with a threaded bolt handle "collar" that needed to be locktighted onto the bolt.
Was the action screw mod done to your action?
Is this an aftermarket bolt?
What is a bad gunsmith. If this qualifies a gunsmith as bad, then I've never been to a good one, because every one I've ever dealt with gives me a rifle that I need to work on to get working properly, except Craig Clintworth.
My understanding is that all RSA action bolt bodies are threaded. If they are or not, I can't say, I have one other that looks different, it doesn't have the mauser claw, it has the same handle with threaded collar.
If yours look like this, it's threaded together.
Where the thing came from and how it came to be is not the issue, the issue is 'gunsmith oversight', of which this is just one example, the most recent for me.
When the fluting was done the whole bolt would have been dismantled. The bolt knob position is critical to the correct functioning of it in the action. If the collar unscrewed then the locking lugs to collar dimension will be off. I presume the thread is fairly fine?
That is definitely an aftermarket bolt. I can now understand how it could happen. And no, original RSA bolts are not threaded.
Good on you for fixing a professional's mistakes. Personally I'd try to get an original bolt. Might not look as tactical as that, but would be a lot safer in my opinion. Imagine the locktight gives again and allows the collar to rotate far enough without the locking lugs locking. I don't think that handle is strong enough to act as a bolt lug. Your idea of pinning it seems prudent.
20250807_105836.jpg
20250807_105825.jpg
Those pictures look like a screwed on collar.
There is a definite undercut visible in the second picture, where the body of the bolt in is the collar, the collar overhangs the bolt body about half a thread.
If it was one piece, there would be no undercut, it would be flush, with no demarcation. It's highly unlikely that the the undercut was machined into a one-piece bolt.
If you remove the firing pin and look in, you'll clearly see if the body is threaded in or not.
No need to fix what isn't broken.
From a design point of view, these rifle bolts were probably made as economically as possible. Much cheaper to assemble a rifle bolt from screwed together bits than machine it from a solid block.
From a stuck bolt perspective, if you have a fired case stuck in the chamber and the collar unscrews on open, there is no way to open the bolt. The barrel will have to be removed, the case extracted, and the bolt lugs mechanically engaged and rotated out.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Aug 08, 2025, 11:11 AMI presume the thread is fairly fine?
It is a fine thread, I didn't measure what it is.
You must have better eyes than me. I took the bolt apart as much as I could and could find no evidence of a seam or thread inside or outside. Did the same with the bolt from my other rifle. There are plenty machining marks though. As far as I am aware the bolt body and handle is a single casting or forging machined to size, just like the receiver. Even the modern Musgrave M21 bolts are all one piece as per their website.
Due to machining tolerances of the day, RSA bolts are not always interchangeable. Most knowledgeable gunsmiths when faced with a RSA action would true the action before fitting a barrel; i.e. chase the thread, square the front and lap the bolt lugs.
Something else you may need to check. If you couldn't close the bolt, it is reasonable to suspect that the gunsmith didn't either. So, to my mind, the headspace is suspect. The bolt lugs may need lapping as well to ensure proper bolt lug contact.