Hey guys, I am trying to dig up a Epps die set for .303, please get your ears to the ground and help me find a set.
Do you have a P14 action?
To Epps a 303 is useless without the stronger action.
finally built that rifle I spoke of on Gunsite all those years ago. P14 22-inch barrel, should get it Wednesday.
Jealous! Please post some pics!?
What projectiles and propellant are you planning to use? Had a look at 180S&B with a 22 inch barrel and you might get an accurate node just over 2700fps with VV N550. Another good contender is a 150TSX at 2900fps.
Quote from: Ds J on Jun 17, 2024, 02:38 PMJealous! Please post some pics!?
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Should get it Wednesday.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 17, 2024, 06:11 PMWhat projectiles and propellant are you planning to use? Had a look at 180S&B with a 22 inch barrel and you might get an accurate node just over 2700fps with VV N550. Another good contender is a 150TSX at 2900fps.
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Ja, I am thinking a decent 170 -180 gr bullet at over 2600 fps but under 2700, that excessive meat damage speed at 100 m is what I wish to avoid, perhaps 2600 is a better speed. I want away from the .270Win speeds.
come on, a whole country and no dies ????
@Treeman. Post it on Gunsite ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 18, 2024, 02:45 PM@Treeman. Post it on Gunsite ;D ;D ;D
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Come on mate, dont be a dick ;D
Put a post out for your buddy Treeman ----------------pretty pleeeez
Quote from: Treeman on Jun 18, 2024, 06:08 PMQuote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 18, 2024, 02:45 PM@Treeman. Post it on Gunsite ;D ;D ;D
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Come on mate, dont be a dick ;D
Put a post out for your buddy Treeman ----------------pretty pleeeez
I already have. Posted on Jaracal. Got one reply. I think Giepie works overseas and this is his answer.
Ek het 'n stel vir 303Epps wat ek nie meer beplan om te gebruik nie, maar ek sal eers weer begin September terug by die huis wees.
I already have. Posted on Jaracal. Got one reply. I think Giepie works overseas and this is his answer.
Ek het 'n stel vir 303Epps wat ek nie meer beplan om te gebruik nie, maar ek sal eers weer begin September terug by die huis wees.
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Oom Drie, you a real mate, thank you so much, lets see what happens ? Wonder if his wife could post it ?
But then again, only 3 months away - fire-forming and neck-sizing ? maybe still some time before a full resize of first cases will be needed ?
I await your magic sir
Sent message to the OP and will get back to you.
I have heard great variance in opinions on the following matter. When fire forming cases you can use rifle with previous accurate load and end with Epps cases. You can not use rifle as accurate shooter because case dimensions change when shooting. You can use rifle accurately while fire forming, but will then have to develop a load for the formed cases.
There have also been some half and half opinions.
Me ! - find any bullets that fit and any old primers and fireform cases, then work on a load for the Epps cases.
Because the neck is untouched in the conversion, there is no reason that the process of fireforming the cases will negatively affect the accuracy.
The muzzle velocity will be less because quite a bit of energy is used to stretch the brass. Wouldn't use them for hunting at extended range, but they should work OK for paper punching.
See Giepie's advert at the bottom. His reply to my PM is also attached. You now have his phone number. Hope you manage to close the deal.
Ek het die stel geadverteer. Ek is tot einde Augustus in Maclear en die stel is in Centurion. Ongelukkig het ek nie iemand om dit van daar te versend nie.
"Ek het 'n stel CH4D dies vir 303Epps wat ek nog nooit gebruik het nie. Ek het besluit om die 303 Epps projek te wysig na 375H&H, dus laat ek hierdie stel gaan om die nuwe projek te financier. R1100 vir die stel. Ek is in Centurion. 08244ses46sewe8"
On reloading for Epps or AI. My 243 ammo that I loaded initially shot accurately in the converted 243AI chamber. I would develop a load whilst fireforming because with the fireformed cases you might only have to adjust 0,5gr either way. Doing it that way you are not just wasting components.
Quote from: janfred on Jun 19, 2024, 02:27 PMBecause the neck is untouched in the conversion, there is no reason that the process of fireforming the cases will negatively affect the accuracy.
The muzzle velocity will be less because quite a bit of energy is used to stretch the brass. Wouldn't use them for hunting at extended range, but they should work OK for paper punching.
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In short they pretty useless then, you not going to use your hunting bullets for paper punching, they not gonna shoot same place, so might as well just not worry about aiming and just blow them out using mixed ammo mixed loose end bits and bobs bullets. Got some old corrosive mil sup stuff I will pull and use the bullets.
A cheat sheet on your rifle with up 10 and left 6 clicks from a zeroed scope for hunting will make it easy to switch from target to hunting. Modern scopes track very well, so use that feature.
was supposed to get rifle yesterday :-X
I got a lot of old and scrap bullets, + a few hundred lead bullets to use for fire forming cases, the primers are more of a concern these days. Luckily for me I have a shit load of primers removed from unknown ammo, cases of dubious condition or my own loads that I decapped live for some reason.
I am battling to find a die set, holding out on Oom Drie being the hero of 2024
I gave you the contact number. Have you not spoken to Giepie?
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 21, 2024, 12:56 PMI gave you the contact number. Have you not spoken to Giepie?
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dunno how I missed that.
Sorry will message now.
dunno how, got this all mixed up k
Thank You Oom Drie, you simply the best.
Sorted, I do not know how I missed the cell number from you, must have been a post that was opened something happened walked away, had a power out and then it was lost to notified but not read, all I can think of.
One does not slip up on things like this - really nearly cost me dearly.
Dies are paid for, posted by now.
Dunno how to say thank you to Tripodmvr, a really big battle fixed.
I even had guys in Austrslia looking out for me, seems these dies are super scarce
Glad I could help.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 30, 2024, 10:07 AMGlad I could help.
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Aus and NZ both have, but 120 to 470 Dollar :o
This CH4D type is New Zealand made I think.
Strange how some dies have no resale value because no one uses them, and are also scarcer than unicorns for same reason.
If you are willing to go the custom die route, just get a Wilson die blank and take it to your friendly gunsmith that has a .303Epps reamer. Not cheap, but much cheaper than importing CH4D dies
CH4D dies.
Made in Mount Vernon, Ohio
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jun 30, 2024, 07:01 PMCH4D dies.
Made in Mount Vernon, Ohio
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Yeaaaa ! They also are the Aus -NZ available die. Seems the Canadians are also big .303 and Epps fans.
Any feedback on the rifle?
Quote from: Ds J on Jul 05, 2024, 11:36 AMAny feedback on the rifle?
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Well I have it back, its ugly in my eyes, and rather heavy, but yea will have to shoot it first.
Pictures please.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53839855189_9ae0665ce8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2q2Dkck)20240706_205107 (https://flic.kr/p/2q2Dkck) by David Frank Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/183810052@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53839764683_14f83d3ab1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2q2CShT)20240706_205134 (https://flic.kr/p/2q2CShT) by David Frank Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/183810052@N07/), on Flickr
Fire formed 30 cases today, got lucky with the scope set up - fitted scope and could hit a 5 lt paint drum at a 100 m straight off the go.
Right now, I am shooting lead, 120 to 200 gr bullets in 308 and 303, anything that goes done barrel and fireforms the cases.
Not necessarily ugly, rather a practical working rifle.
Have you received the dies?
Yes the dies arrived Wed last week while packing for a hunt. I still had to buy the fresh stuff for the hunt and luckily the pick up point was same building - they appear new, unused.
I just got home from the range a moment ago, just finished fireforming a further 70 odd cases. Guys had a chuckle at my collection, pistol bullets, .303,.308,mono's, lead and cup and core bullets - 90 gr up to 210 gr, all loaded with a S355, S365 mix from spilt cases and last few grains left in a tin. Those knock overs and other spills that happen, well I used about 15 years of collected old propellant.
I have, actually had a beer mug of bullets that weighed wrong or were from unknown make source that I pulled for the cases, deceased estate reloads and left overs from load development that never worked out, all went int fireforming about 120 Epps cases for me.
40 gr of the 355/365 in every case and the bullet seated by eye.
About 20 cases that had 180 gr PMP look like bullets formed with rounded shoulders and 20 pistol 90 gr bullet cases are only 80 % formed.
Its now much barrel cleaning time, the cases are in the tumbler....................
So! This is where I am at. Got some Epps dies, fireformed some cases. All that story stuff about using a neck sizing die to just size the neck?
Well that's just it a bout stories.
Bought a .303 neck sizing die and it can not get over the Epps newly formed shoulder, so it can not even reach the neck to size it.
Next, that thing like you do on other cases where you partial neck size the case, no can do, the Epps die starts case forming long before it gets to the neck of the case.
Now - what now? I have heard talk of using a standard .308 die to neck size the Epps case. Question now is whether it sizes to .308 neck needs or does that get determined by the expander ball.
I assume you use a .308 die with the expander ball swapped out ?
Adjust the die to partially size the neck. The formed shoulder should not be pushed back as that is what will center the case in the chamber. Even if the sides are slightly pushed inwards the shoulder should ensure concentricity.
Problem with pushing the sides inwards, is that the displaced brass has to go somewhere. That equates to the shoulders moving forward. Also a reason why cases grow.
Measure the reference dimension before sizing and after a partial sizing operation to see what I mean.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Aug 04, 2024, 10:00 PMAdjust the die to partially size the neck. The formed shoulder should not be pushed back as that is what will center the case in the chamber. Even if the sides are slightly pushed inwards the shoulder should ensure concentricity.
8888888888888888888888888
You are then basically un-Epp'sing it each neck sizing.
All full-length sizing dies start pushing the sides in before it starts on the neck. At least, all the ones I have used in the past. The less the body taper, the earlier in the cycle it has to start to give a proper full size.
Why not sacrificing one case and then measure the shoulder diameter before and after to see how much it actually pushes the sides in.
I made a spacer which holds the case further down, now I can collet size the neck.
ME velly velly clever ;D
After many trips to the range I was at wits end with loads that did not work, I concluded that there was a problem which was not to do with the loads.
I cleaned, measured and dyed the metals, made tell tale points in the stock and found nothing. I then decided to sand and scrape the inside of the stock and look for shiny spots and contact history after a few shots. While scraping the recoil area, I found it - a crack in the recoil block, a crack right through the stock. I then followed logic and went to the rest of the stress point - the stock is almost split length wise.
Now what? Where does a man find a P14 stock that does not cost more than his last vacation.
Perhaps it is repairable ?
Quote from: Treeman on Aug 12, 2024, 08:01 AMNow what? Where does a man find a P14 stock that does not cost more than his last vacation.
Perhaps it is repairable ?
I've successfully repaired stocks a lot worse than that sounds. A thorough deep clean with acetone and an epoxy glue up reinforced with M5 or 6 threaded rod inserted at 90% to the crack will leave you with something stronger than you started with. If you dye the epoxy to the colour of the darkest part of the grain it can sometimes be almost completely invisible.