As some of you know by now, I had some scope trouble on my hunt and made me rethink a few things.
What I used was an Element Optics Helix 4-16x44 FFP with the MOA reticle. I really like this scope. Magnification range is almost ideal for any range a
308 gets used. The reticle is fine with MOA hash marks that actually agree with measurements. With FFP the subtentions remain the same throughout the zoom range. Tracking is precise and repeatable. The lens quality is also pretty good. What I also find very user friendly is the centre dot. The only two downsides I can think of is the weight and the fact that the windage turret is not covered and cannot be locked.
From practical experience I've realised that I do not need all the reticle hashmarks, but I do want the centre dot and a few aimpoints below. I do not need more than 9x magnification.
Reliable and repeatabke tracking is a must. And definitely either a closed or lockable windage turret.
If I am going to use the zoom function, first focal plane is a plus if I have to use the reticle markings as aim points.
OR
With a plain crosshair I have to be able to dial when shooting further than PBR.
And I want all that at an affordable price.
Look at this company. They stock other makes as well.
https://www.futurama.co.za/brands/hawke?p=2
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jul 30, 2024, 03:38 PMLook at this company. They stock other makes as well.
https://www.futurama.co.za/brands/hawke?p=2
They have a poor service reputation. That's first hand from friends of mine as well as on a GS thread. I'd treat them with care.
Most of the complaints have been about advertising without stock available. Checking on availability of stock should be logical. My scope buying experience was without hassles.
Here is the scope I referred to in another post : https://www.futurama.co.za/hawke-endurance-30-wa-sf-6-24x50mm-riflescope-lr-dot-reticle
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jul 30, 2024, 05:27 PMMost of the complaints have been about advertising without stock available. Checking on availability of stock should be logical. My scope buying experience was without hassles.
The first hand reports from my friends were about battling to obtain refunds for products sold where stock was unavailable after the sales were finalised. Requiring your clients to verify your stock levels before you accept payment for an item you advertise is a bold business practise that isn't common to any trusted online platforms i can think of. I am not trying to bash a seller and would not mention this if it didn't come from first hand sources. Proceed with caution, scopes aren't cheap.
Ek gooi 'n wilde klip in die bos: wat van 'n Niko Stirling?
Hulle is redelik goedkoop, en werk baie goed tot hulle breek.
Die probleem is mens weet eers hulle is stukkend jy mis skiet.
Quote from: Ds J on Aug 15, 2024, 11:08 AMEk gooi 'n wilde klip in die bos: wat van 'n Niko Stirling?
Hulle is redelik goedkoop, en werk baie goed tot hulle breek.
Yes, mine worked well till it broke this year.It came with the rifle when I bought it.Was disappointed, couldn't get it to work properly. Collecting new scope this weekend.
Have a look at this video and what criteria he has used to make his judgement. Good glass, smaller dimensions and weight as well as lower magnification for hunting scopes is a bonus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4BIE1FfDrE
Quote from: oafpatroll on Jul 30, 2024, 07:11 PMThe first hand reports from my friends were about battling to obtain refunds for products sold where stock was unavailable after the sales were finalised. Requiring your clients to verify your stock levels before you accept payment for an item you advertise is a bold business practise that isn't common to any trusted online platforms i can think of. I am not trying to bash a seller and would not mention this if it didn't come from first hand sources. Proceed with caution, scopes aren't cheap.
I have purchased once through them. Confirmed stock prior to purchasing and had a quote generated via a salesman-, then paid. No issues doing it that way and service was good. Went about it that way as had heard the nightmares using their online shop only but they had stock of recoil pads I wanted when no one else seemed to.
Quote from: DaavG on Aug 16, 2024, 07:51 AMQuote from: oafpatroll on Jul 30, 2024, 07:11 PMThe first hand reports from my friends were about battling to obtain refunds for products sold where stock was unavailable after the sales were finalised. Requiring your clients to verify your stock levels before you accept payment for an item you advertise is a bold business practise that isn't common to any trusted online platforms i can think of. I am not trying to bash a seller and would not mention this if it didn't come from first hand sources. Proceed with caution, scopes aren't cheap.
I have purchased once through them. Confirmed stock prior to purchasing and had a quote generated via a salesman-, then paid. No issues doing it that way and service was good. Went about it that way as had heard the nightmares using their online shop only but they had stock of recoil pads I wanted when no one else seemed to.
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The man is a absolute genius con artist. He supplies 8000 customers brilliantly every month and then chooses a good "knock" and just does not supply or respond, just stone walls that person. On Site here look for Roy, he just got taken for like R30K
The man works on a principle of X number of cons = 0.3% of total customer base, of which perhaps 10 % will actually make a fuss. So every year he cons a free R200 000 and piss's off 1 % off custermer base - he can go on fore ever and ever if he does not get greedy. He has been doing this for 15 years about.
Here is a warning post here and on GunSite
I mostly use their site to compare and check products and pricing. Bought once from them if i remember correctly, haven't bought since. I find it easier to buy from somewhere where I know there is stock available. My scope I bought from people I know very well and who have given me excellent service. Could have had it delivered but taking a 2 hour drive tomorrow to collect and have everything fitted.
I've bought from Futurama a few times, I've always done the stock check enquiry first, and I've not had a problem.
The don't carry stock themselves, they are more of a broker - when they say they check for stock, it's with their suppliers.
That's why they ask you to verify first, in case the supplier doesn't have it.
To me, it's very sensible for a broker to operate that way. They are like Takealot, without the up to date stock availability.
Carrying stock is a risk, it ties up your cashflow, and is best avoided where possible.
I bought a Lynx LX3 and rings from them in 2020, that was the only big ticket item. At the time, I ordered the smaller SAH version, and after I got it I realised I bought the wrong one. I sent it back, they credited me, and I bought the bigger brother of it.
Your protection when you buy online is to pay with a credit card through the payment gateway.
If there is an issue, you have recource for a refund, both through the payment gateway and your bank.
If you pay by EFT, there is no recourse.
Only pay by EFT if the supplier is known and trusted.
Never pay with EFT the first time buying from an online source.
The last purchase I made with Technopro was an EFT payment, I lost the money. If it was a credit card payment, it would take a couple weeks for the refund.
I did replace my Element Optics scope with an Arken EPL 4-16x44. It worked just as well as the Helix scope with the advantage of a capped windage turret.
It is easy enough to dial for longer shots with nice and crisp clicks and a lekker fine reticle at 4x. An added advantage is an illuminated centre markings for shots on a dark background. The central part of the reticle looks clear for 1 MOA. It might seem counterproductive to aim with a open spot, but it is surprisingly easy. Basically you know the shot will land in that clear area. It also has the small dot that is only really usable over 8x magnification for the longer shot.
All in all, I think it is a neat little scope.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 08:42 AMArken EPL 4-16x44
What's the build quality like and how does it track? I've always just stuck to Leupolds, never branched out from them but need a scope for my 2.43 Win.
Quote from: DaavG on Aug 28, 2024, 08:59 AMQuote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 08:42 AMArken EPL 4-16x44
What's the build quality like and how does it track? I've always just stuck to Leupolds, never branched out from them but need a scope for my 2.43 Win.
Build quality seems fine. Everything feels rigid enough.
View is clear. I have not looked through top-tier scopes yet, but it is much clearer than the Hawke and Optisan scopes I used on my airrifles. And the picture is stil clear at max magnification.
Some might find the reticle a bit fine at 4x magnification.
Tracking seems fine. I did not do a "nipple twister" a la Cyclops, but POI moved as expected during zeroing. So far zero is zero; not noticed a drift. The one time the scope was used in anger the shot went exactly where aimed.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 11:05 AMThe one time the scope was used in anger the shot went exactly where aimed.
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Why were you angry ?
Quote from: DaavG on Aug 28, 2024, 08:59 AMQuote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 08:42 AMArken EPL 4-16x44
What's the build quality like and how does it track? I've always just stuck to Leupolds, never branched out from them but need a scope for my 2.43 Win.
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Pricing ?
R8400 listed at shop below. Arken has a very good name in America.
https://engageoptics.co.za/
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Aug 28, 2024, 09:24 PMR8400 listed at shop below. Arken has a very good name in America.
https://engageoptics.co.za/
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Lynx in South Africa ;D
Quote from: Treeman on Aug 28, 2024, 09:32 PM*************************
Lynx in South Africa ;D
It is 2024. Why can we not have first focal plane scopes with etched reticles for hunting?
Quote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 11:05 AMBuild quality seems fine. Everything feels rigid enough.
View is clear. I have not looked through top-tier scopes yet, but it is much clearer than the Hawke and Optisan scopes I used on my airrifles. And the picture is stil clear at max magnification.
Some might find the reticle a bit fine at 4x magnification.
Tracking seems fine. I did not do a "nipple twister" a la Cyclops, but POI moved as expected during zeroing. So far zero is zero; not noticed a drift. The one time the scope was used in anger the shot went exactly where aimed.
Thank you. That scope seems well priced for its features. Might see if I have a look through one.
Quote from: janfred on Aug 28, 2024, 11:26 PMQuote from: Treeman on Aug 28, 2024, 09:32 PM*************************
Lynx in South Africa ;D
It is 2024. Why can we not have first focal plane scopes with etched reticles for hunting?
You kids lost me? Please enlighten me
It is 2024. Why can we not have first focal plane scopes with etched reticles for hunting?
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We hunting mainly, shooting is different. I admit that when it comes down to the actual scope it might be a nicer scope, but when put to use, you want a uncomplicated scope that is not busy. No batteries and and suggested POA, just hunting.
I have also never found a hunting bullet load combination that agrees entirely with those reticules - perhaps thats because I aim for a specific point on a animal and not a "I should hit it on the side about middle if I use second etching"
Basically etched reticles are more shock resistant than wire reticles. And you can etch more complex shapes like numbers, floating centre dot and "Christmas trees". Wire reticles are cheap and have very slightly better light transmission. Best they can have are dots or short line holdover points on the croshairs themselves.
The below is copied from Vector Optics FAQ page.
Wire reticle
The wire reticle usually presents itself in a crosshair and is stretched and fixed in the sleeve to form the aiming point. It is the most common type of reticle in scopes due to the low manufacturing cost. The advantage of wire crosshairs is that they are durable, and provide no obstruction to light passing through the scope. However, the shock resistance of wire reticles is weaker than etched reticles, the wire crosshairs may get damaged from drop force, recoil or incorrect mounting. The metal wire material also makes it unable to form complex reticle patterns.
Etched reticle
The etched reticle is that the aiming line is directly engraved on the center lens, hence, the shock resistance and durability is better compared with wire reticles. The etched reticle can realize complex reticle patterns, such as Christmas tree style reticles, reticle lines can be made thinner than wire reticles, depends on different manufacturers, which also means that it can be more accurate than wire reticle. However, the etched reticle usually has a higher manufacture cost as it involves a series of process like coating, etc. Besides, it is easy to accumulate dust and fog during assembly, affecting the light transmission rate.
Fiber reticle
The fiber reticle uses a very thin fiber optic light pipe pasted behind the wire for illumination purposes. With the fiber reticle, it can ensure the illuminated dot can be seen and used under the strongest sunlight. Meanwhile, when shooting at low magnification like 1x, you can use two eyes open and acquire your targets rapidly with the bright center dot (similar as the red dot sight shooting). It also inherits the advantages and disadvantages of wire reticles. However, the manufacturing cost of the fiber reticle is higher, and like wire reticles, it cannot achieve complex reticle patterns and the shock resistance capability is weaker.
Now this !
Fiber reticle
The fiber reticle uses a very thin fiber optic light pipe pasted behind the wire for illumination purposes. With the fiber reticle, it can ensure the illuminated dot can be seen and used under the strongest sunlight. Meanwhile, when shooting at low magnification like 1x, you can use two eyes open and acquire your targets rapidly with the bright center dot (similar as the red dot sight shooting). It also inherits the advantages and disadvantages of wire reticles. However, the manufacturing cost of the fiber reticle is higher, and like wire reticles, it cannot achieve complex reticle patterns and the shock resistance capability is weaker.
THIS I CAN GO FOR.