So it has finally come to be that I am the owner of a cooler room, this was a big wish for me and I always kinda knew that it was one of the "never gonna happen" dreams. Much like my hidden below ground walk in safe room, the one where my rifles can be above the fireplace and handguns on the walls above my coach. (One day - just maybe those numbers will come in, all 6 of them)
Onto the subject. Here in South Africa, our conditions, how do you hang your meat, how long and what temperature ?
Do we hang skin on or off ?
My game often spends 12-20 hours at above 25 Cel before we get back from the hunt, shot sometime Saturday, sleep over, drive home Sunday - worrying, but never a issue yet.
This cold room is just so so so much a big part of my life and wish's that just never was possible, I am so enthusiastic.
The ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.
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Yes I have dealt with case hardened meat before. It would seem that the consensus is about 0.5 - below 4 Celsius, seems not much happens till after 3 days and then pretty much stops after 10 days with venison.
They say its much more work to skin it when aged skin on ?
The skin becomes thinner and clings more to the carcass. It is definitely easier to remove a fresh skin, but the gains on the meat outweighs the trouble of the skinning. Actually, the most troublesome pieces of skin are those where the carcass has been cut open and the skin dried.
My mom used to take the hardened meat and cook it slowly in sweet wine for pies.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 02, 2024, 09:46 PMMy mom used to take the hardened meat and cook it slowly in sweet wine for pies.
Damn! That has me drooling.
Cody has two weeks of exams still to write :( , only in two weeks will I be able to create a need for my cooler room. I just so wanna use it ;D , going to have to control myself not to open it all the time to ? dunno what, ya know, like look inside and say ' "yooooo its cold hey", maybe Cody can nod his head in agreement.
I am going to hang two animals one skin on one skin off.
Brings me to an question I thought of, what about hanging an animal for the initial stage skin on and then second stage skin off - just to reduce case hardening ?
The meat dries into a clump within 36 hours. I would not advise it, but please give feedback on your experience?
And few things beat a case of beer to test the functionality of the coldroom. You can enjoy the cold ones with Cody in the evenings after he's done studying.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 04, 2024, 10:08 PMThe meat dries into a clump within 36 hours. I would not advise it, but please give feedback on your experience?
And few things beat a case of beer to test the functionality of the coldroom. You can enjoy the cold ones with Cody in the evenings after he's done studying.
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Thanks, dries, ja, understood, but does not yet become that hard biltong shell ? Was wondering if there was a balence that could be got to age it somewhat and then skin before it becomes to difficult and finish curing before it makes that real hard casing on outer.
Beer, have not drank since somewhere early March, came home one day and just forgot to have a beer and then thought next day would be like two days without a beer, thats two days more than in like 40 odd years. That became "make it a week" which became " make it a month". I had a friend who lived his entire life 4 months drinking, smoking, eating as and what he wanted - 4 months party animal. Then he went 4 months no drinking, no smoking, eat like a health guru. So I decided I would do as he did, only when 4 months came and went I just carried on not doing many things.
Had another friend (same group, both were yachtsmen who sailed around the world every few years), he went two years as he pleased and one year absolute nothing, not even ordinary bread or coke.
So ya, I have not drank for some time - beer or fizzy or fruit juice, not used even one spoon of sugar nor a slice of white bread. Not eaten one sweet.
I have lost 17 kg over last 7 months and last 2 kg took 3 months of that time.
Will do a write in general sometime.
I wonder if wrapping the meat in hessian or similar would help prevent the crust.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Nov 05, 2024, 10:34 AMI wonder if wrapping the meat in hessian or similar would help prevent the crust.
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Guys use some oil on hands and coat meat with thin film - reports say it works ?
That makes sense.
I am not sure whether I heard/read about wrapping meat in plastic wrap for cooling and ripening, but it works great for transport.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 05, 2024, 11:28 AMI am not sure whether I heard/read about wrapping meat in plastic wrap for cooling and ripening, but it works great for transport.
Our local gucci boutique butcher has beef cuts aging in vacuum bags in their display fridge so. Their rump steaks, which I eat a lot of are fantastic so 'wet aging' seems to be a thing if you do it right.
My father was the founder owner of the Ferglen butchery, I grew up around carcass's and cured meats.I have known of meat that has been oiled outside, but not in the cavity and then aged, never over the years have I heard of a problem yet. The carcass is then washed with vinegar or citrus based cleaner day before processing.
I have often heard talk of cling wrap being used, but never seen it done, nor followed up with someone from pre doing it to after doing it. I would at first thought think there could be problems with the wrap glueing to the carcass.
I however speak only of beef,I have never dealt with venison in its raw form.
Quote from: Ds J on Nov 04, 2024, 10:08 PMThe meat dries into a clump within 36 hours. I would not advise it, but please give feedback on your experience?
And few things beat a case of beer to test the functionality of the coldroom. You can enjoy the cold ones with Cody in the evenings after he's done studying.
If you can find some glass bottle Coke or other cooldrinks that the lightie can have, that will also be amazing.
Nothing beats an ice cold coke in a glass bottle.
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.
+1 that's what I do.
Quote from: Againstthegrains on Nov 10, 2024, 09:51 PMQuote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.
+1 that's what I do.
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so be it then, this will be my starting point.
Treeman, this only works if the cooler maintains a constant 2 - 4 degrees. If it goed up to 6 degrees, the chance of spoilt meat becomes real.
Please check on the unit often for the first few days.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a remote monitoring gadget available from Temu of AliExpress or similar for not very much money.
I laugh at myself now, I just cannot believe how chuffed I am, been long since I felt so ???? Lucky ? Like gees, I actually got one.
Its a strange sense because it does not really do much more than stand there, colder perhaps ya, but not much to get excited about. I guess its because I realized long ago that I would never have one, that's why I built the mini cold room, and then second one as well
For what its worth, those mine cold rooms I built were really REALLY worth their weight in gold. R3500 at most if you buy the freezer, 1000 if you use your old one.
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 12, 2024, 01:44 AMQuote from: Againstthegrains on Nov 10, 2024, 09:51 PMQuote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.
+1 that's what I do.
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so be it then, this will be my starting point.
I like your style. It looks like Treeman is going to be a lot experiments in the future ;D
The only thing I can add to the cold-room story is the importance of the circumstances under which the animals are butchered/ field dressed.
In Short: Keep the flies off at all costs.
I say this for a few reasons:
1) If you hunt on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter, no problem there are no flies around, but in early/late or out of season hunts this is a big issue.
2) To field dress or not? - There is a fine line between field dressing on a hot day and having a thousand flies zooming all over the animal and keeping it closed to dress at the farm behind the mesh. If you leave it too long, the gas builds up and the animal is about to explode inside and spill guts all over the meat. Make your choice wisely.
3) Field dressed animals left in the veld for any amount of time will be found by flies if they are around. They will go inside and lay tiny little bunches or single long thin white eggs (they hatch into maggots). These can be carefully washed or scraped out. The eggs are not a major problem, because they won't hatch in the cool room. Too cold. Always check the inside cavity for these before you hang your meat.
4) Sitting flies - this is a major problem, because flies sit on shit and anything else that is covered in bacteria. When they walk all over the meat, they inoculate these bacteria onto the meat. This cocktail of bacteria are able to grow under really cold conditions, and after a week, the meat starts to go sticky and smell bad. This smell goes right into the meat, so avoid like the plague. Note, that the meat under the skin of an animal is sterile, until the skin is removed. A cleanly slaughtered animal will just dry out in the cold room and develop a dry biltong like texture the longer you leave it, but with fly contaminated meat, the bacteria produce proteinase enzymes that digest the meat, and make it go sticky and stinky. Nothing freaks me out more than a bunch of skinners working on a hot day in the open with flies sitting all over the freshly skinned meat. Say something - don't let them do it.
5) Skin just before you butcher - if you do decide to hang your meat to get it a bit more tender, it is best to keep the skin on, especially on smaller game that will dry out quickly. (cool rooms tend to have low humidity). The time you loose skinning the animal, you will make up when you work the animal, as you don't have to cut out the dry outer layer. If there has been some fly contamination on the inside, it only affects the meat around the ribs, so its easy to cut it out or chuck it as it is not much there any way. Skin on prevents the above scenario.
6) Shoot it in the head - Not always an option, but if you hang a heart lung shot animal with the skin on. All the blood goo is trapped under the skin to fester. It sounds horrific, but is not that bad. An abattoir is by law obliged to cut this out from the carcass as it can potentially be a health hazard, but in reality, blood contains natural anti-bacterial compounds that confer some level of protection. Further, the blood clots and generally stops the spread of bacteria. I have been cautious about hanging shoulder shot animals (skin on) for too long because of the risk, but you can normally get away with a 7-10 days in this condition at the right temperature. Head shot animals in the jacket can age longer than 7-10 days without the risk of drying or rotting and should be hung at the back of the cold room if you have a lot of meat to work.
Happy chilling 8)
Thank you, u have contributed a lot to me, and also refreshed old knowledge.
Cody and I have started to spray with a mister filled with white vinegar and if a I have any, citric acid. We just spray all surfaces wet, even the tables and boards knives, everything gets wetted.
Your take on this ?
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 14, 2024, 06:54 PMThank you, u have contributed a lot to me, and also refreshed old knowledge.
Cody and I have started to spray with a mister filled with white vinegar and if a I have any, citric acid. We just spray all surfaces wet, even the tables and boards knives, everything gets wetted.
Your take on this ?
When bacteria grow, they produce organic acids (such as lactic acid) and CO2 as a byproduct of their metabolism. As the acid levels build up, the pH drops, and the low pH starts to inhibit further growth. To fast track this bacterial inhibition, we can make a synthetic acidic environment by adding acid such as vinegar and citric acid which are food safe, and not going to eat through your hands, cloths and chopping board. This forms the basis of pickling foods. Also the reason why you should dip your biltong in vinegar before you hang it. It also makes sense to add vinegar to your boerewors/droewors, as if there is any contaminated meat in the mince, it retards any further growth/ development of the rot.
If you keep all the surfaces where you work acidic, then it inhibits bacterial growth on them. It makes sense and is perhaps a useful practice.
With that said, there are bacteria where ever you work, on the meat, on your skin, in the air etc and we are doing butchery, not surgery (although I sometimes have doubts as to the distinction ;) ) so, as long as things are clean, you should be fine. No need to go nuclear with Jik etc, just soap and water is enough to get rid of the bulk of the microbes. With time, and as our knowledge grows, I am leaning less and less in the direction of scorched earth policies against bacteria, as we need them as part of our gut flora and microbiome, and they help our immune system by out competing bad microbes and by keep our immune system fit. For the same reason that most babies with colic, land up in the emergency ward because the home environment is too sterile due to over motherly mothers or fathers.
Hence, if there is food spoilage happening, our bodies are more able to deal with common household bugs than some weird super survivor strain of bacteria that is acid, hyperchloride, anti-biotic resistant etc.
Hence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.
Hence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.
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If I recall correctly, you are some kinda mad scientist guy ;) . You like a scientist or something like that ? Scientist Doctor, so I am from past conversation pretty assured you are expressing facts and not opinions.
You mention soap and water twice, like your preferred method, ? Now, I do not like soap that much - man made chemicals and taste etc. Why do you not mention things like alcohol and household acids with more preference ?
I like acids and alcohol because I can get it on my tools and foods with out secondary results, unlike soap ?
You may want to keep acids away from any metals you do not want rusting.
Alcohols are not great for your skin long term unless mixed with a skin moisturizer. Hence why soap and water is a better alternative.
Normal household detergents and cleaning agents all contain fragrance; even bleach. Normal green sunlight liquid is probably the most benign. For the less fragrant varieties you can contact industrial users or hotel suppliers.
A cheaper alternative is to contact one of the companies that mix their own cleaning agents and ask them to mix you some without fragrance and colourants.
Quote from: janfred on Nov 17, 2024, 03:15 AMYou may want to keep acids away from any metals you do not want rusting.
Alcohols are not great for your skin long term unless mixed with a skin moisturizer. Hence why soap and water is a better alternative.
Normal household detergents and cleaning agents all contain fragrance; even bleach. Normal green sunlight liquid is probably the most benign. For the less fragrant varieties you can contact industrial users or hotel suppliers.
A cheaper alternative is to contact one of the companies that mix their own cleaning agents and ask them to mix you some without fragrance and colourants.
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Till proven otherwise I will stay with about a 30 % vinegar mix for food and touching cleaning. Soaps for walls and floors and after working cleaning. Pre work rinse - light acids - alcohol.
Quote from: Treeman on Nov 16, 2024, 09:41 PMHence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.
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If I recall correctly, you are some kinda mad scientist guy ;) . You like a scientist or something like that ? Scientist Doctor, so I am from past conversation pretty assured you are expressing facts and not opinions.
You mention soap and water twice, like your preferred method, ? Now, I do not like soap that much - man made chemicals and taste etc. Why do you not mention things like alcohol and household acids with more preference ?
I like acids and alcohol because I can get it on my tools and foods with out secondary results, unlike soap ?
Guilty as charged. PhD Medical Microbiology 8)
I am going on what is cheap and pragmatic. There are bacteria everywhere. We are wasting our time trying to work in a sterile environment. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE MEAT PROCESSING EXERCISE IS TO KEEP YOUR COLD CHAIN INTACT!!!!
I cannot emphasize this more. If there are bacteria all over something, they only grow when it is warm enough. If the cold chain lapses for any amount of time, you are in trouble. that is the most important concept to grasp. Watch your temperatures and limit your time that your food spends outside those cold temperatures.
The next most important thing is to keep stuff clean. It doesn't have to be sterile just clean. A wash with soap and water and a rinse with hot water to get rid of any soap residue is cheap and effective. Rinse with vinegar is also fine, and can't do any harm.
My point, is that there is no point in making war with bacteria, as you will never win. That's why the COLD CHAIN is your friend.
You make good sense yes, I forgot that I knew about temperature. I also knew its more important than cleaning, I had just forgotten that I knew.
I'm quite convinced of the folly of trying to live in a sterile environment. One of my relatives is a clean freak nutcase and her environment was continuously cleaned and disinfected and only filtered water was consumed in her home. Her kids weren't allowed to walk barefoot and I never saw them even a bit grubby. She, her husband and the two kids were the most sickly bunch of people I've ever come across despite coming from the same good cockroach stock as the rest of us who wallowed in the muck like pigs.
Quote from: oafpatroll on Nov 18, 2024, 06:08 PMI'm quite convinced of the folly of trying to live in a sterile environment. One of my relatives is a clean freak nutcase and her environment was continuously cleaned and disinfected and only filtered water was consumed in her home. Her kids weren't allowed to walk barefoot and I never saw them even a bit grubby. She, her husband and the two kids were the most sickly bunch of people I've ever come across despite coming from the same good cockroach stock as the rest of us who wallowed in the muck like pigs.
Yes, they walk among us. I have family members that did the same to their kids ::)
Serious question:
Where is the border between clean and dirty?
When is it clean enough, and where does dirty start?
Quote from: Ds J on Dec 16, 2024, 07:58 AMSerious question:
Where is the border between clean and dirty?
When is it clean enough, and where does dirty start?
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I recon the answer to that would be according to who is asking.
Me ? I shake hands with anyone and I will not eat had held food, yet if I am working on a engine and my hands are black, I am quite willing to eat with finger marks on my bread roll. I have always had a thing about clean dirt and dirty dirt, chemical and mineral, mud, sand, oil and paint or cement, no problem. You sneeze, fart in a room that I am eating in, even some vark cracks a fart at a braai while there is meat cooking, I am done - outa there.
I can go days without bathing if I can wash my hand, feet and face. I do not think I have ever washed or polished a car past blasting mud off with a hose pipe and the interior is a bit embarrassing, no papers and things lying about, but dust - months of it sometimes.
Bathing is a everyday thing and I usually can not call a day a day without bathing, I often realize that I use bathing as a "the work day is done" thing. Cody knows to leave me alone till I have bathed after work. That said I often do not feel I need a bath and complain that I am bathing by custom not need, winters day at home for instance.
Hair must be clean, yours, mine - everyday and when I had hair sometimes twice a day. dirty hair was the reason I started brush cuts then went to shaving my head.
So I guess clean is as clean is considered to be, by you yourself.