Allgunstuff Forum

Reloading => Reloading Methodology => Topic started by: Treeman on Dec 30, 2024, 07:05 PM

Title: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 30, 2024, 07:05 PM
My bolt opens most of the way and stops, a bump with the palm of hand opens it further.
I am loading a test bullet for the .270
s365 52 gr at 2752 fps and about 59 000 psi.
I have trimmed cases, bumped shoulder back a bit, how can cases still stick ?
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: big5ifty on Dec 30, 2024, 07:48 PM
Does it happen with every round, sticking at the same place every time ?

That I think is setback, on the action where the rear lugs contact on close. Or on the lugs.

A sticky bolt from powder is always hard to move when you start opening the bolt, it doesn't start opening easily then stop.

Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 30, 2024, 10:24 PM
Yes thats it, it open now hassle, then get to last part and stops, some rounds not so bad, but sticky every time. I thought was case length, trimmed, no change. Bump back shoulder, not much difference. Started thinking pressure, but no signs, and velocity is correct and not max.
This set back - tell me more ?
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: big5ifty on Dec 31, 2024, 07:39 AM
this explains it well

Lug Raceway Setback. (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?392046-Locking-Lug-*Set-back*-Photos&s=df38fdb62c4418f2bc5c3d2603ba4601)
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Newton on Dec 31, 2024, 07:40 AM
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 30, 2024, 10:24 PMYes thats it, it open now hassle, then get to last part and stops, some rounds not so bad, but sticky every time.
tell me more ?
Sounds to me very much like a "clicker"
Area at the base near the web is not being sized correctly
The whole reason for the .. ROLLSIZER - which I have described here

See here ,,
die / pressure and clickers (https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/die-pressure-and-clickers.4045417/)

Quote
A clicker is a tight case that is stuck in the chamber. The bolt makes a clicking sound when the extraction cam pops the case free. In normal use, your extraction cam is not used.
Most of the time they are caused from an interference fit at the base of the case and chamber. The main cause of this is a sizing die that is oversived in that area. They typically wont show up until 3-5 reloadings of the case.

Clickers... (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/clickers.272137/)


Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: big5ifty on Dec 31, 2024, 07:56 AM
Until a gunsmith takes it apart and looks at it, you can't be sure this is the problem, its just what came to mind.

There is also the galling of the lugs on the bolt that can look like this

Galled lug. (https://preview.redd.it/so4mnlznkoo11.jpg?auto=webp&s=71bc8ff7d0ab8a0627053afc61eb582ccbf79809)

Galling can happen if sand gets in the action, or can happen simply if there is no lubrication on the lugs.

I always put a dot of copper grease with the end of a toothpick behind each lug every time I clean the rifle.
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 08:40 AM
I will look into this in next 5 minutes
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 09:24 AM
I washed chamber and bolt, definitely feels better in everyway. I have not done more than wipe and drop of oil to the bolt in years. I do not know how this will affect after firing issue, I can not see it helping the original problem - the bolt lifting easy and then stopping. A smart whack lifts it last centimetre and it usually comes back easily then. The case is sticky on extraction, but this is difficult to detect as it does not occur every time.

Why the problem only after firing ?
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: big5ifty on Dec 31, 2024, 09:27 AM
You have to take it apart and look at it, at least to rule out setback as a problem.
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: oafpatroll on Dec 31, 2024, 09:54 AM
Is it a stainless steel rifle?
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Tripodmvr on Dec 31, 2024, 09:54 AM
What bullet and weight. S335 is faster than S365 and that might be your problem.
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 10:18 AM
Quote from: oafpatroll on Dec 31, 2024, 09:54 AMIs it a stainless steel rifle?
********************
Yes
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: oafpatroll on Dec 31, 2024, 10:21 AM
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 10:18 AM
Quote from: oafpatroll on Dec 31, 2024, 09:54 AMIs it a stainless steel rifle?
********************
Yes

Some grades of stainless are more prone to galling than regular high carbon steel. I'd inspect the lugs carefully for any sign of discolouration which may indicate galling.
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Tripodmvr on Dec 31, 2024, 11:11 AM
Somchem gives a max load of 52gr for S355. If you use S335 it should be much lower than that. Barrel length would also play a major role.
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 02:12 PM
Quote from: Newton on Dec 31, 2024, 07:40 AM
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 30, 2024, 10:24 PMYes thats it, it open now hassle, then get to last part and stops, some rounds not so bad, but sticky every time.
tell me more ?
Sounds to me very much like a "clicker"
Area at the base near the web is not being sized correctly

*************************************************
This is actually more the path of thought I want to follow, all my cases I own are between 3 and 7 reloads. These were 3 when I started reloading again. (This annealing is noticeable in many ways).Come to think of it, I have had this issue with this rifle for since for ever, and seeing it on the .303 now as well. It has however always been a non issue amount of resistance, it has now become a problem amount of force needed I believe it is likely part of my reloading process that is causing it. I neck size, collet size and bump shoulder back only to the minimum. 
Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Newton on Dec 31, 2024, 07:00 PM
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 02:12 PM*************************************************
This is actually more the path of thought I want to follow, all my cases I own are between 3 and 7 reloads. These were 3 when I started reloading again. (This annealing is noticeable in many ways).Come to think of it, I have had this issue with this rifle for since for ever, and seeing it on the .303 now as well. It has however always been a non issue amount of resistance, it has now become a problem amount of force needed I believe it is likely part of my reloading process that is causing it. I neck size, collet size and bump shoulder back only to the minimum. 
Use a Micrometer to measure a factory round ( actually a few of different manufacture ) at different points on the case
Then measure the reloaded cases that are giving problems
See what the difference in the measurements are ?

Try a different FL sizing die
May not help if the problem is in an area the die cannot reach

Try a set of - SMALL BASE DIES

Try a set of shell holders of different dimension - the Redding set

Headspace adjustment with Shellholder?? (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/headspace-adjustment-with-shellholder.191053/)


Title: Re: Bolt sticking ?
Post by: Treeman on Jan 03, 2025, 11:01 PM
Quote from: Newton on Dec 31, 2024, 07:00 PM
Quote from: Treeman on Dec 31, 2024, 02:12 PM*************************************************
This is actually more the path of thought I want to follow, all my cases I own are between 3 and 7 reloads. These were 3 when I started reloading again. (This annealing is noticeable in many ways).Come to think of it, I have had this issue with this rifle for since for ever, and seeing it on the .303 now as well. It has however always been a non issue amount of resistance, it has now become a problem amount of force needed I believe it is likely part of my reloading process that is causing it. I neck size, collet size and bump shoulder back only to the minimum. 
Use a Micrometer to measure a factory round ( actually a few of different manufacture ) at different points on the case
Then measure the reloaded cases that are giving problems
See what the difference in the measurements are ?
Try a different FL sizing dieMay not help if the problem is in an area the die cannot reach
Try a set of - SMALL BASE DIES
Try a set of shell holders of different dimension - the Redding set
Headspace adjustment with Shellholder?? (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/headspace-adjustment-with-shellholder.191053/)
**************************
I will try these methods as well, thank you.