Loads for .410 - 2 inch shells?

[Treeman]

Edit: I doubt that the 308 die will work with regular 2½ and 3" shells.

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Which is likely why its not common knowledge - BUT ! cut top off the die and I am sure it will be just fine.

[Ds J]

Further feedback:

Please ensure that brass cases are annealed 2/3 back. I annealed only the front 1/3 and the cases did not from properly. I need to redo half of them.

Edit: I doubt that the 308 die will work with regular 2½ and 3" shells.

888888888888888888
Which is likely why its not common knowledge - BUT ! cut top off the die and I am sure it will be just fine.

I have an old, damaged 300 H&H die which have an appointment with the grinder and belt sander.

If I can cut and grind it to a proper 11.5mm opening, it should work like a charm.

[Ds J]

Some more questions:

I have decided to use the brass cases, and prepared +- 60 of them.

Given that the little shotgun is 100 years old, and that I have no proven data to work with, I am wary of simply throwing a load together.

- How does one determine pressure in a cartridge with so little data to work with? Would a chrony suffice?

- Does the size of the shot make a difference, or is it weight only?

- Is there a magic speed for shotgun shells? Some folks have mentioned 1150-1200fps, because it gives proper spray for the shot.

- Is there an ideal distance to test the loads for proper spread?

I have decided to start with five loads, and to chrony them for a calculation if possible:

- 10.0gr S265 & 125gr shot
- 10.5gr S265 & 130gr shot
- 11.0gr S265 & 135gr shot
- 11.5gr S265 & 140gr shot
- 12.0gr S265 & 145gr shot

Any other ideas?

[oafpatroll]

Some more questions:

I have decided to use the brass cases, and prepared +- 60 of them.

Given that the little shotgun is 100 years old, and that I have no proven data to work with, I am wary of simply throwing a load together.

- How does one determine pressure in a cartridge with so little data to work with? Would a chrony suffice?

- Does the size of the shot make a difference, or is it weight only?

- Is there a magic speed for shotgun shells? Some folks have mentioned 1150-1200fps, because it gives proper spray for the shot.

- Is there an ideal distance to test the loads for proper spread?

I have decided to start with five loads, and to chrony them for a calculation if possible:

- 10.0gr S265 & 125gr shot
- 10.5gr S265 & 130gr shot
- 11.0gr S265 & 135gr shot
- 11.5gr S265 & 140gr shot
- 12.0gr S265 & 145gr shot

Any other ideas?

I'd start at the bottom of the somchem data for 410/265. That is 12 grams of shot with propellant starting at 12.3 grains with max of 15.4 grains. Velocities are quoted at 993-1178 fps which sound more than reasonable for killing anything I can think of a 410 being used on.

I'd pattern at 15 and 25m initially and depending on results stretch it out from there in 5m increments to get a good feel for effectiveness. My gut says that patterns will open up swiftly and shot density will be very low much past 25m. I have never loaded a 410 and haven't shot one in well over 20 years so take all of the above for no more than the 2c its worth.

[Treeman]

Its the weight that must be moved that matters, be it birdshot or buckshot - I would think that some caution should be exercised with slugs and weight do to possible resistance offered by the barrel and bearing surface.
I know the method is primitive and unscientific, but you want a load that makes a bit of a crack, sharp bang, just past the mushy sound that's before that crack sound. Work up the charge, not the load till you find it, then you can lower charge raise load or vice se versa.

There is a sweet spot that just sounds like a shot fired and not a fart.

Chrony at 7 - 8 meter and whatever you do, put a good barrier at a 45 angle in front of chroni screen. I used my water meter cover  . The shield must be at an angle or the stray shot comes back at you and you must use wooden dowels if you used the sun screen.
Patterning - forget it, it comes out like it comes out.
The reloads are good for 20 m on living things, after that the penetration drops of like a cliff edge and you battle with wounded creatures, even with bigger shot.

[oafpatroll]

I think patterning is useful as it gives you an reasonable mental picture of the shot column at known ranges which is especially useful with something you haven't shot much. I've seen vastly differing pattern results with small changes in load makeup. A particularly interesting one for me was when I used quenched range scrap shot that I graphite tumbled. An otherwise identical load had significantly tighter and denser patterns all the way out to 35m. Another one was when I changed from MS200 to S121 because of supply. I worked up a 121 load that gave me the same velocity and when i patterned it there was a big hole in the middle of the pattern.

Re slugs, my experience has been that if you have a non bore riding, i.e. sub calibre slug it will give slightly higher velocities for the same charge as an equal weight of 7.5 shot in a 12G. i have gifted many shooters Lee 1oz slugs to replace the shot in standard 28g 7.5 load with the crimp cut off and the shot replaced with the slug and all of them have loved them to bits.   

[Ds J]

From a German website, for 50mm cheddite hulls:

"
_Wad Gualandi H17

9g 2,4 mm Pb

vor 13 gr SP3, gebördelt mit Overshotcard (331 bar, 309m/s)

vor 14,5gr SP3, , gebördelt mit Overshotcard (525 bar, 331m/s)_ "

5/16oz lead with 13gr SP3 for 1013fps, or with 14.5gr SP3 for 1086fps.

[Ds J]

Edit: I made mistakes with the transfer of the data. Please view the post below.

[Ds J]

As posted on shotgunworld forum:

(I stuck to weighing in grains because it is what I have; S265 equals Win 296, 4227 and H110).

-10.0gr S265 & 140gr (5/16oz.) shot: 997fps
-10.0gr S265 & 145gr (1/3oz.) shot: 908fps
-10.0gr S265 & 150gr (3/8oz.) shot: 717fps
-11.0gr S265 & 140gr (5/16oz.) shot: 717fps
-11.0gr S265 & 145gr (1/3oz.) shot: 800fps
-11.0gr S265 & 150gr (3/8oz.) shot: 924fps

(Note: the double 717fps reading surprised me, but nothing looked out of place.)

These on a grid predicts that 12gr of powder and 150gr shot should deliver 1150fps, and 12.5gr should deliver 1200+fps.

I put up a rubber board (conveyor belt) at 10m, standing at a slight angle in case of rebounding shot. The shot penetrated the first layer of rubber and stuck.

Spread was clearly different for the two barrels. The unchoked barrel spread evenly over an A5-sized piece of paper; the choked barrel put the shot into 10cm (4 inches) circle.

[Treeman]

I think you have now superseded where I got to with the .410 reloading. I am so chuffed this gun went to you, I had a fondness for the particular gun I gave you.

I found things were good at 1150 fps abouts, after that "things" started to happen, little "red light" moments and sounds, just a feeling, just a "I have learnt to take note of" kinda things.

[Ds J]

We have all the pleasure!

Once the loads are sorted, I will get the kids onto clays. First stationary, and later moving. And then, we will hopefully get to doves and pigeons on sunflower fields.

The little shotgun is said to be good for small birds out to 20m with no 7 or 8 shot.