Lee neck size collet die set - Your thoughts?

[Againstthegrains]

Probably the cheapest way to get into reloading is with the Lee collet die sets, that come with a bullet seating die, a case holder and a collet neck size die. There is no full length size die, so you are continuously using fire formed brass to fit your rifle specifically.

I have been using this combo on my 204 Ruger, and the reloads of the fire formed cases still appear to be accurate, and I have not had a case get stuck. The neck tension also appears to be fairly consistent.

Does anybody have extensive experience with these sets, and can provide more info on likes and dislikes?

[Treeman]

What I found was that:
 1 - The collet sized and the full length sized do not shoot same results.
2 - The collet sized and the neck sized do not shoot same results.
3 - After a shot or two the shoulder will move forewords and you will have to F/L sized again.
   You then have to do load development again because the F/L sized case and tensions shoots different pressures and POI and grouping.
Perhaps you can save a F/L case type load and a collet die load for after shoulder bump back, but i jus gave it up as a bad Idea.
I now use my F/L die to F/L size or bump shoulder back or partially size the neck.   

[jager]

I use a body die to bump the shoulder, followed by the collet die for the necks.

It gives very good neck tension consistency and excellent concentricity. It's an extra step, but in don't load massive volumes and it's worth it IMHO. 

On it's own, it doesn't sound like a great plan, as others have stated above.

[Treeman]

Tell me about this body die - sizes the body ?
Is there a shoulder only die ?

[Againstthegrains]

What I found was that:
 1 - The collet sized and the full length sized do not shoot same results.
2 - The collet sized and the neck sized do not shoot same results.
3 - After a shot or two the shoulder will move forewords and you will have to F/L sized again.
  You then have to do load development again because the F/L sized case and tensions shoots different pressures and POI and grouping.
Perhaps you can save a F/L case type load and a collet die load for after shoulder bump back, but i jus gave it up as a bad Idea.
I now use my F/L die to F/L size or bump shoulder back or partially size the neck.   

I agree with point #1. Fire formed brass will shoot different from full length sized brass. This is well documented. Point #2 can differ, but not as much as in point #1. The only reason for this that I can think of, is that the neck sizer vs collet either has a different neck tension, or that there are differences in the centering of the case neck, resulting in the bullet seating a bit off center.

[jager]

Tell me about this body die - sizes the body ?
Is there a shoulder only die ?

I use a Redding body die.  Sizes the body, and bumps the shoulder back. Leaves the neck unmolested.

If you have a lathe you can make your own, by either drilling out a full length die's neck, or by cutting a full length die to just below the neck/shoulder junction.

[janfred]

As far as I am aware only Forster and custom die makers produce shoulder bump dies.

[Treeman]

Tell me about this body die - sizes the body ?
Is there a shoulder only die ?

I use a Redding body die.  Sizes the body, and bumps the shoulder back. Leaves the neck unmolested.

If you have a lathe you can make your own, by either drilling out a full length die's neck, or by cutting a full length die to just below the neck/shoulder junction.

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Its the shoulders I wish to move a thou or two, save the fireformed case as is. I can not think of a good reason to size the body and not the shoulder? May just as well then use a FL die set out a bit ?

[Tripodmvr]

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Its the shoulders I wish to move a thou or two, save the fireformed case as is. I can not think of a good reason to size the body and not the shoulder? May just as well then use a FL die set out a bit ?
[/quote]

It should be easy to make such a die. Hole big enough to not work on the sides of the case and then an angled top part with the correct angle for calibre. Base threaded to screw into press. Bob's your uncle.

[223]

I have used the Lee Collet dies for all calibers they are available for.
I do adjust the mandrel diameter to get the neck tension I want.  You can make neck tension the same as what your FL die gives.  Just measure the case neck diameter after sizing and adjust until the are the same.  (That presupposes your necks are uniform.)
Neck tension and headspace are the main differences between Collet-sized and FL sized cases. Keep the neck tension the same and head space minimal (0,001' - 0,002") and they should shoot the same from most rifles.
Only when the bolt starts to close with some difficulty, will I use the FL sizer die to push the shoulders back a bit.  This usually hapens after 10 - 20 firings, depending on case shape etc.  On my 375 H&H I have not resorted to FL sizing after 22 firings.
The primary advantage of the Collet Neck Sizer die is increased case life.  I have not yet worn out a batch of cases that were sized with the Collet Neck sizer from the start.
Concentricity of sized cases and loaded ammo is great too.

[oafpatroll]

The primary advantage of the Collet Neck Sizer die is increased case life.  I have not yet worn out a batch of cases that were sized with the Collet Neck sizer from the start.

Given the price of rifle brass that is a good enough reason on its own for a tightwad like me.

[Treeman]

I am collet sizing for the .303, all other calibers are partially sized using full length die.
Sold all my neck and collet dies.
I hope I do not regret this.

[janfred]

How do you adjust the mandrels?

I think that most of the perceived advantages of a collet die are not limited to collet dies. Concentricity is not any better or worse than a bushing die. I cannot see how it would make cases last any longer than a bushing neck-sizing die.

The only practical advantages I can see is that Lee dies are cheaper than other brands and that no case lubrication is required for case sizing.

The disadavntage of a collet die is that actual neck-sizing is dependent on how much force you place on the handle when sizing.

[Againstthegrains]

The disadavntage of a collet die is that actual neck-sizing is dependent on how much force you place on the handle when sizing.

I would think that the relationship between force and neck tension is exponential, i.e. at the beginning of the press cycle a small amount of force has a significant effect, and as you push harder against the mandrel, the effect on neck tension starts to become negligible. Basically, law of diminishing returns. So it shouldn't matter much if your 9 year daughter operates the press, or Eben Etzabeth. I think this is why, despite this apparent drawback, these dies are popular, and effective.

[Againstthegrains]

How do you adjust the mandrels?

Easy to make them smaller, but not bigger. Just spin them on a drill and rub with fine sand paper and buffing compound and keep measuring till you get the diameter you want. Or use a lathe if you have one.