What makes Barnes monos the best

[Againstthegrains]

A friend of mine once said that the best alternative to Barnes bullet, is another Barnes bullet. He seems to think that nobody has yet been able to adequately copy Barnes bullets.

Over time, I am beginning to believe him. I have never recovered a single other mono bullet than a Barnes. This suggests that despite evidence of others opening up, they do not open up enough to do as much damage as a Barnes. From what I have seen from other monos recovered, their mushroom is usually about half of that of a Barnes. The Barnes on the other side, expand to at least double the initial diameter.

So the question is, what is different about the Barnes bullets?

1. Do they use a different alloy, instead of pure copper?
2. Is the inside of the hole etched to ensure it expands into 4 perfect petals?
3. Is the hole deeper?
4. Is the shape of the ogive designed to peel back perfectly and consistently?

[Againstthegrains]

So I was in a discussion with my brother-in-law, who bought a mini CNC lathe and was thinking of making some monos.
We had a discussion about alloys, and discovered that Hornady GMX is made from guilding Metal - the same stuff the cup is made up of in conventional bullets.

Hornady has recently changed the GMX line to the CX line, because their monos failed to expand at speeds less than 2000ft/sec. Apparently the CX is a bit softer, but also made from a copper alloy (copper with about 5% Zinc). full article

I am a bit confused, because guilding metal is also a 5% Zinc alloy. So I'm not sure what's going on here. I presume they may have dropped the zinc content by a few %, or their guilding metal is  a higher zinc% to start.

[Newton]

Some in depth about bullets

Rebated Boattail

High BC ULD tips

Bench Rest

Bonded Bullets

Scratch around a bit more on that site
A lot of very detailed information

Buy the equipment and start making your OWN bullets

[Treeman]

I think many companies have a Barnes in their offerings. I also think Barnes is not some icon in bullet history, perhaps a bit better than some, but no almost magical difference.
I went back to Cup and Core after GS Customs went off the market, I noticed absolutely no success difference and perhaps some meat damage increase when using bad shot placement.

Barnes bullets are less effective on soft game.
Barnes bullets do same if even more damage when hitting bones.
The likelihood of a lighter blood trail is very real.
They cost stupid money for a "if", "maybe", better performence.
Yes they penetrate deeper, how much deeper does a kudu hunter need ? Unless you shooting arsehole kinda shots 60 cm penetration kills anything table fare if shot properly.

Barnes is marketing, very good marketing of a marginally better bullet .
 

[Newton]

Barnes is marketing, very good marketing of a marginally better bullet .

So Treeman ..
What is your best "non-marketing" hunting bullet ?

[Treeman]

Barnes is marketing, very good marketing of a marginally better bullet .

So Treeman ..
What is your best "non-marketing" hunting bullet ?

*********************************
I no longer have a best bullet, I now know that almost any bullet loaded to its capabilities kills anything I wish to shoot if shot properly.I like Hornady bullets a lot, never been a Sierra fan, I shoot mono bullets in the .458x2 inch because I can not get a 260 gr in lead thats long enough. I use Barnes and Nosla in the .204 because that's what I could buy ongoingly on the shelf - I bought a few years worth when available.
I bought Hornady Interlocks  and Barnes monos for Cody and the 7mm08. The Barnes was for hunting and the Hornady was for a 10 year old practice. We shot about 5 impala and same warthog using the Barnes bullets and after like 4 scares on Impala which ran about 100 m + everytime, we use the Hornady I/Locks with pretty much DRT results every time.
I will likely use the Barnes only for Kudu, just in case he gets the shot angle wrong.

Lets play a bit ?

Load a interlock 130 gr for the .270 at 3140 fps and go hunt springbuck at 300 m + Perfect everything.
Take same 130 gr at same 3140 fps and hunt kudu here in the Eastern Cape coastal bush at 80 -100 m and you will never recover a bullet. If it does not go through behind shoulders, it will come apart into fragments, not recoverable as a bullet. Yes it kills quiet effectively through lungs, but it starts getting hairy when on the shoulder shots are taken that bullet is pretty much apart after the shoulder bones, before doing its work in engine room. If you want an exit wound - forget it. Same 130 gr bullet at 2900 fps start out often ends up under opposite shoulder skin.
Application counts a lot!

Take same 130 gr weight and use a core bonded bullet at 2900 fps and shoot Impala at 300 m and you may see pass through shots with less than optimal expansion caused damage.
Same with core bonded bullets at .308 velocities over distance - bullet sometimes proves to be to tough.
Barnes Monos - .308 - 7mm08 velocities over distance behind shoulder shots on Impala sized animals often results in slow kills and long tracking ventures.

So no, I buy bullets that I suspect will be on shelves long enough for me to buy 5-600 of them and then load them to optimal velocities.
Favourite ? I like Hornady, no real reason, but I buy local first choice if possible, APM (I think name), Claw, Rhino, Capstan when I restock.

I have not bought bullets other than for Cody's 7mm08 which he got about 5 years ago in maybe 7 or 8 years, everything else was bought in almost life time numbers for hunting.
I still have in bullet form, not loaded about 200 Peregrines for the .458
500 hundred Hornady for .204
300 Capstan for .270

[Treeman]

I lie , I recently bought about 1500 bulk .223 bullets for playing.

[Againstthegrains]

Some in depth about bullets

Rebated Boattail

High BC ULD tips

Bench Rest

Bonded Bullets

Scratch around a bit more on that site
A lot of very detailed information

Buy the equipment and start making your OWN bullets

YoH!!!! You are trying to push me down a very deep rabbit hole, that is likely to lead me to divorce!!!!

Out of curiosity, how much does all that equipment work out in cost?

[Againstthegrains]

I think many companies have a Barnes in their offerings. I also think Barnes is not some icon in bullet history, perhaps a bit better than some, but no almost magical difference.
I went back to Cup and Core after GS Customs went off the market, I noticed absolutely no success difference and perhaps some meat damage increase when using bad shot placement.

Barnes bullets are less effective on soft game.
Barnes bullets do same if even more damage when hitting bones.
The likelihood of a lighter blood trail is very real.
They cost stupid money for a "if", "maybe", better performence.
Yes they penetrate deeper, how much deeper does a kudu hunter need ? Unless you shooting arsehole kinda shots 60 cm penetration kills anything table fare if shot properly.

Barnes is marketing, very good marketing of a marginally better bullet .
 

I beg to differ with respect to others on the market. I have tried GS customs, and they tended to whip through, and not do enough damage. Never recovered one. The ballistix were better, but still, I agree that they don't kill as fast as a cup and core. Also, never recovered one, so it suggests that they also tend to whip through without expanding enough. The barnes in 7mm 110gr and 120gr, I recovered a lot of them from big animals, which suggests that they open enough to slow down when they pass through or stop inside the animal and do a lot more damage. From the carcass processing, the Barnes did similar damage to a cup and core with respect to wound channel, but they did not leave a trail of lead and copper fragments that had distributed through the meat, so a big plus. The "lesser" brands of monos make a smaller wound channel, less actual meat damage around the hole, but a lot more blood infused in the meat layers. I presume from the hydrostatic shock.

I fully understand your preference for a standard cup and core that is shot at the right speed for the type of hunting you do. Personally, for shooting impala in thick bush, I'd also go for a heavy fragile cup core/ varmint style bullet that will hopefully disintegrate and send enough fragments through the animal and create the maximum amount of damage to drop the animal on the spot. If it runs 10m in any direction, you only have to search 314m2 , but if it runs 100m in any direction, you have to search 31,400m2 to find it.

Cup and cores kill faster, no doubt about it, but from a Butchery perspective, the Barnes still stand out as my favorite. They are all the same if you shoot the animal in the head

[Newton]

YoH!!!! You are trying to push me down a very deep rabbit hole, that is likely to lead me to divorce!!!!
Out of curiosity, how much does all that equipment work out in cost?

I think that there is a catalogue of some sort on that site ?
Being in US$ - unaffordable
UNLESS
You have a good club or syndicate or big family that all shoot - and split the costs
Once you have mastered the equipment and processes I am sure you could produce bullets close to - or perhaps better than store bought.
You also have a LOT more options - use imagination ...

[Tripodmvr]

The included video shows boar hunting with copper bullets.

https://youtu.be/AAjlG-G7viY

[Newton]

Those are SAKO

Monolithic Series Powerhead Blade

Apparently originally the bullets were made for SAKO by ... wait for it..... BARNES
Apparently Sako now make their own or source them from some where else ?

Still looks like a Barnes

Sako Powerhead Blade .30cal 170gr



Better have a FAT cheque book ready   

[Againstthegrains]

What I like about that bullet is that is has grooves in the inside of the cannula, so that when it expands, it tears down as 4 distinct petals. Most of the other monos just have a hole down the center, so the expansion can be uneven, and less like a peeled banana.

[Newton]

What I like about that bullet is that is has grooves in the inside of the cannula, so that when it expands, it tears down as 4 distinct petals. Most of the other monos just have a hole down the center, so the expansion can be uneven, and less like a peeled banana.

I wonder what that funny little plastic tip does for ballistics ?
Hornady replaced theirs for a metal one because the plastic ( Poly )  tip melted

[Ds J]

How many sub-optimal shots do the average hunter make? I refer specifically to badly placed shots. Would the Barnes bullet make a difference in such shots? I doubt it, which is why I would not reccomend them for the average hunter.

To compare it to vehicles: is the general driver  able to get enough extra performance out of a vehicle to justify a pair of Pirelli tyres? I guess not.