dirty meat and shot placement

[DaavG]

What is going on here.

What's the weight of that bullet? Looks like its shed quite a bit? Possibly a bonded version going forward?

[Treeman]

BUT WHY< WHY IS THIS HAPPENING<

[Ds J]

I contacted a PH friend. He said that it has occurred often when animals were calm and not aware of the hunters.

Another probable explanation would be something related to blood pressure.

And it could be a combination of both.

[Philip J]

Did that animal drop quickly or did it run some distance after the shot?

From what I have seen with hunters who come here to shoot, it occurs more often when they hit both lungs, but the animal runs a fair distance before expiring. The theory is that the punctured lungs forces a lot of blood out the new hole and into the surrounding tissue. I have seen this irrespective of the calibre used. It is just a little more pronounced with faster bullets.

[Againstthegrains]

To me that looks like the animal ran a lot before it passed out from blood loss. The running pulls blood into the damaged connective tissue.

There are 2 different processes that involve meat damage:

1) Damage to the tissue immediately around the path of the bullet hole characterized by dark red meat a few cm around the bullet hole. This is made worse the faster the bullet is traveling due to shock. This is worse with lead bullets that fragment and the lead particles spread through the muscle tissue. This also is bad when you strike bone, and the bone fragments have the same effect as lead fragments. The cause of the colour change is fragmentation of capillary network of the surrounding tissue, causing a blood infiltrate. Since the capillaries in the tissue are small, the extent of the blood flow is limited. Less pronounced with mono's unless you hit bone.

2) Tissue infiltrate, which is what I see in the picture, where the animal is bleeding from engine room damage (hint: major vessels) and there is a path open between the source of the blood and the network of connective tissue that is found in the facia between the muscle layers. As the animal runs away, the movement between the layers pulls the blood in, and is a b1tch to get rid of. When you cut through, the meat (muscle) is clean and free of the above (point 1). Can happen with both monos and cup and core and severity is associated with the time the animal takes to die and the amount the animal moves after being shot.

[Treeman]

Did that animal drop quickly or did it run some distance after the shot?

From what I have seen with hunters who come here to shoot, it occurs more often when they hit both lungs, but the animal runs a fair distance before expiring. The theory is that the punctured lungs forces a lot of blood out the new hole and into the surrounding tissue. I have seen this irrespective of the calibre used. It is just a little more pronounced with faster bullets.

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20 m max before falling, usually on the spot.
BUT !
 The bigger question is why is it so pronounced this rifle combination ?

[Treeman]

To me that looks like the animal ran a lot before it passed out from blood loss. The running pulls blood into the damaged connective tissue.

There are 2 different processes that involve meat damage:

1) Damage to the tissue immediately around the path of the bullet hole characterized by dark red meat a few cm around the bullet hole. This is made worse the faster the bullet is traveling due to shock. This is worse with lead bullets that fragment and the lead particles spread through the muscle tissue. This also is bad when you strike bone, and the bone fragments have the same effect as lead fragments. The cause of the colour change is fragmentation of capillary network of the surrounding tissue, causing a blood infiltrate. Since the capillaries in the tissue are small, the extent of the blood flow is limited. Less pronounced with mono's unless you hit bone.

2) Tissue infiltrate, which is what I see in the picture, where the animal is bleeding from engine room damage (hint: major vessels) and there is a path open between the source of the blood and the network of connective tissue that is found in the facia between the muscle layers. As the animal runs away, the movement between the layers pulls the blood in, and is a b1tch to get rid of. When you cut through, the meat (muscle) is clean and free of the above (point 1). Can happen with both monos and cup and core and severity is associated with the time the animal takes to die and the amount the animal moves after being shot.

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No ! - this is a lot of jello, spread far between muscles.

[Tripodmvr]

The Hornady Interlock bullets are not very hard and deform very quickly. This might explain the blood under the skin on entry.

[Ds J]

When blood from the chest cavity bleeds into the area around the wound, it usually leaves a thick, dark, gooey clump of blood. In some cases I have cleaned it, and the meat was still edible.

The haemorrhage in the photo looks and works differently - it is usually lighter blood, and it penetrates the slimey tissue between the skin and the muscles, as well as the muscles themselves. Trying to clean this is really tough because everything is gooey.

[Treeman]

When blood from the chest cavity bleeds into the area around the wound, it usually leaves a thick, dark, gooey clump of blood. In some cases I have cleaned it, and the meat was still edible.

The haemorrhage in the photo looks and works differently - it is usually lighter blood, and it penetrates the slimey tissue between the skin and the muscles, as well as the muscles themselves. Trying to clean this is really tough because everything is gooey.

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KORECKTEEEEEEEE O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very messy, we are now just cutting 4 - 5 kg out and dumping, just not worth anything else.

[Ds J]

Food for thought/suggestion: dark (used) blood causes dark, gooey clumps, maybe because it flows slower. Light (arterial) blood causes large, slimey haemorrhages because it is under higher pressure.




Further question: does this occur mainly/mostly on one side of the animal (related to anatomy), or on both sides - bullet-related?

[Treeman]

Food for thought/suggestion: dark (used) blood causes dark, gooey clumps, maybe because it flows slower. Light (arterial) blood causes large, slimey haemorrhages because it is under higher pressure.

Further question: does this occur mainly/mostly on one side of the animal (related to anatomy), or on both sides - bullet-related?

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Both side and sideways and in out every where - just this rifle and bullet - its this bullet, I am convinced of this.

[Ds J]

Do you have access to an x-ray machine? Maybe at a vet? It would show lead fragments.

[Tripodmvr]

Quite an explosive round - ELDX

https://youtu.be/NKwKoyw-SvM

[oafpatroll]

Do you have access to an x-ray machine? Maybe at a vet? It would show lead fragments.

I saw a yoochoob vid some time back when lead bullets were being banned by the companies in the UK that buy game meat from recreational hunters and professional harvesters. Their xrays of lead bullet shot animals were interesting as they showed quite substantial intrusion and dispersion of lead into the meat even where there was no obvious visual cues of it. The commercial buyers banned lead projectiles in their supply chain long before the government got to it.