Security company and Home defence Shotgun ammo

[zguy]

What do most security companies issue out for shotgun ammo? Am I correct to assume  SSG and larger size? (English standard)

Is there a market or need for Slug ammo for the home defence and Security market?

[oafpatroll]

I need slugs but I make them myself, same with double ought (.330) and triple ought (.360) buck loads. The cost of quality commercial slug and buck loads puts me out of the market.

[Krazong]

Slugs have their uses, but I think for the most part SSG or bigger is best for home defense and security company ammo.
The smallest I would feel comfortable with would be AAA.

[zguy]

I need slugs but I make them myself, same with double ought (.330) and triple ought (.360) buck loads. The cost of quality commercial slug and buck loads puts me out of the market.

I've seen you post about lee slugs before on GS. What weight works well in your use case? You using 7/8 oz or 1 oz slugs?

I have seen buckshot and slugs go for over R150 for 5, which is crazy.

Are you using slugs for HD or sporting use?

[zguy]

Slugs have their uses, but I think for the most part SSG or bigger is best for home defense and security company ammo.
The smallest I would feel comfortable with would be AAA.

Thanks for this. I've seen a lot of local manufacturers make ammo with AAA shot.

[oafpatroll]

I need slugs but I make them myself, same with double ought (.330) and triple ought (.360) buck loads. The cost of quality commercial slug and buck loads puts me out of the market.

I've seen you post about lee slugs before on GS. What weight works well in your use case? You using 7/8 oz or 1 oz slugs?

I have seen buckshot and slugs go for over R150 for 5, which is crazy.

Are you using slugs for HD or sporting use?

I have a number slug molds the lee 7/8oz and 1oz included. I have had better results with the 7/8 as far as accuracy is concerned but the only real advantage they offer over the svarog slugs I favour are that you can can easily convert a standard 28g cartridge by trimming off the crimp ring and pouring out the shot and replacing it with a slug. Bit of glue around the nose and bobs your auntie. Gives more than good enough accuracy for sporting or social work.

The svarogs are the gold standard for me though. The fragmented version of their sveroboy is a a granade at anything much over 1400fps. It and the heavier non fragmented version are accurate enough for me to have put an old wide angle Tasco 1-3.5 scope on QD mounts on my semi auto for when I use them. At 50m it's not horibbly difficult to hold a group the size of my palm and creates endless fun for observers when I shoot it on the rifle range.

They along with a few velcro cards full of my pet styrene buffered double ought buck load live in a bandolier with my shotgun for bumps in the night.

Lee and fragmented 560ish grain sveroboy
 

[zguy]

Oaf, invaluable info you have there, thanks.
The Russian slugs seem to have high praises on YouTube. I see the Russians also have quite a lot of interesting reloading equipment for shotshells.

With the current situation in Ukraine,  I'm wondering how hard it is to get molds now.
There is a Canadian reloader on YouTube that seems to sell similar designs.

Do you find value or benefit in powder coating the slugs? Do you PC your shot pellets as well?
Do you use a smooth bore or rifled barrel or choke?

[oafpatroll]

Oaf, invaluable info you have there, thanks.
The Russian slugs seem to have high praises on YouTube. I see the Russians also have quite a lot of interesting reloading equipment for shotshells.

With the current situation in Ukraine,  I'm wondering how hard it is to get molds now.
There is a Canadian reloader on YouTube that seems to sell similar designs.

Do you find value or benefit in powder coating the slugs? Do you PC your shot pellets as well?
Do you use a smooth bore or rifled barrel or choke?

I understand that for a very long time, i.e. since communism, it's been difficult for russians to get anything other than shotguns. As a result they have a tradition of developing loads to enable their smoothbores to do lots of jobs. My russian molds are made by svarog and they are of top quality. They are complicated molds but drop much easier than any of the american ones I have.

I powder coat anything that will touch the bore including rifle bullets and buck shot above .330 which fits in a standard shot cup. It eliminates lead fouling in both bore and gas system and in the case of the buckshot I like to believe (or possibly bullshit myself) that it makes it a little more consistent and tighter grouping.
   

[oafpatroll]

Forgot to answer the smooth rifling question. I shoot the slugs out of a smooth cylinder bore. A mate has a rifled Mossberg 500 and has used my slugs to pin many bushpugs on his farm. He reckons they are very accurate but that he suffers occasional wad separation. I assume the issue there is that the cut down wad is secured to the slug with a self tapping screws and the spin winds or rips it out. The slug was not designed for rifled barrels so the connected wad which acts as a drag stabiliser like a shuttlecock skirt is probably redundant.

[zguy]

Ok, so sounds like you don't use a sabot or discarding jacket for the slugs, hence the powder coating.
What kind of range would you say the slugs are accurate out to? Im assuming 50m on a good day, with the planets aligned just right, wearing your lucky underpants?

I assume if the attached wad separates, it affects the stability of the slug.
Does the screw pull out of the wad or does it break off? Screws can be quite brittle.

[oafpatroll]

With the svarogs palm sized groups at 50m is easy offhand. Off a rest inside of that clover leafs with 24 or 27 grains of MS200 are not exceptional. Once you get the hang of the trajectory you can hit man sized targets in the torso at 100+ reliably. For a giggle I walked shots onto the berm at 300m and once I had the hold over worked out was able to drop them reliable into an area of something not much more than a metre in diameter. The Lees are not nearly as accurate and I gave up on using them entirely when I got the first svarog.

At the ranges I can imagine using a PCC in a  social interaction my semi auto loses out only in capacity and ease of top up but absolutely blows them away in terminal effect. When I first started loading them I ran them up to 1600fps and where they would vapourise a 20l water container at 25m. I suspect that there are few things this side of big bore rifles that are likely to do more damage per shot inside of 50m.

The svarog sveroboys are near full bore and bore riding so cannot be used in a sabot or standard shot cup. The Lees are sub bore and are designed to fit in a trap hull. The svarogs ride on the bands that you can see around them and those are a sliding fit in a cylinder bore. They are intended to reduce bearing surface as well as allowing for them to safely go through moderate choke. I haven't had the testicular fortitude to try them in my choked bird gun which I run half and three quarters and that's mainly why I've not shot a pig with them myself as I only really encounter them when walk up shooting.

If I cut the cup off the wads perfectly flat, have a dead flat base on the slug and connect them concentrically they don't separate and were still connected on the 300m berm muppetry I mentioned above. I made a jig for cutting the wads and aligning the slug and wad and I sand the slug bases flat before powder coating.

The wad is essential to accuracy as it acts as a drag stabiliser. If they come off or are bent on launch sue to a skew cut on the wad or irregular base on the slug they fly arratically. A bent wad is especially bad as it stays connected and seems to act like a tail fin directing the slug quite a way off course.

[zguy]

I see Lyman makes a mold that looks like like a Diablo style.
I wonder if that shape I more accurate compared to the lee slugs.

Handsize grouping at 50m is pretty good, especially for zombie shaped targets.

[oafpatroll]

I see Lyman makes a mold that looks like like a Diablo style.
I wonder if that shape I more accurate compared to the lee slugs.

Handsize grouping at 50m is pretty good, especially for zombie shaped targets.

I have one of those in 525 grain if memory serves. It is significantly more accurate than the Lee slugs because it has a very nose heavy bias, just like the air rifle pellet it resembles. It's also a sub bore slug and you put it in a standard wad shot cup. If I was hunting for single slug mold now and couldn't get the svarog stuff it would be my pick.