303 Epps reloading data ?

Treeman · Jul 30, 2024, 08:09 AM

hi ! - I am wanting to see other folks reloading data for the Epps in .303, I have always found it more pleasant to do my load development along side someone else's experiences - nice to build the bigger picture.
I only have S365 to load with at present, but part of this post is to have other reloaders experiences with import propellants.
I am loading a 174 gr bullet at 77.8 mm CTL S365 at 51.6 gr for 2630 fps at present - its a 107 % compressed load.

Ds J · Jul 31, 2024, 03:03 PM

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/303-epps-load-data_topic579.html

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/303-epps-data_topic203.html

https://www.303british.com/id1.html

https://books.google.co.za/books/about/Shooting_Reloading_the_303_British_and_t.html?id=aIezBgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Philip J · Jul 31, 2024, 04:19 PM

My 303 is not an Epps, but with regard to imported powder, I have had success with IMR3031 behind 150gr Interlocks. I don't know how much case capacity increases in the Epps, but it might be worth a shot.

Tripodmvr · Jul 31, 2024, 04:58 PM

Predictions from Quick Load as to useability of available propellants and limiting pressure to 55 000 psi. Look for 100% case fill and only a few stand out. Re17 and Hodgdon 414 seem good choices.

Cartridge : .303 Epps Imp.
Bullet : .311, 174, APM 174
Useable Case Capaci: 56.487 grain H2O = 3.668 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.4 inch = 570.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

64 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 111,6 62,5 4,05 2877 98,5 55000 11232 1,109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 60 *T 101,3 55,3 3,58 2839 100,0 55000 10120 1,110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP *C 111,9 60,8 3,94 2834 95,8 55000 10921 1,114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17 100,4 54,9 3,55 2821 99,8 55000 10038 1,115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 100,4 54,9 3,55 2821 99,8 55000 10038 1,115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 120,0 62,1 4,03 2820 97,6 55000 10744 1,113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 117,2 59,7 3,87 2815 99,5 55000 10141 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 2 *C 123,3 64,2 4,16 2813 92,6 55000 10908 1,116 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 123,3 64,2 4,16 2813 92,6 55000 10908 1,116 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S365 108,3 56,1 3,63 2810 100,0 55000 9628 1,121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N565 *C 119,6 64,0 4,15 2804 92,0 55000 10736 1,122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 *C 113,3 60,3 3,91 2799 91,3 55000 10717 1,118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70 *C 107,3 59,5 3,86 2799 96,1 55000 10550 1,114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 113,8 59,9 3,88 2798 94,1 55000 10545 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15 *C 113,8 59,9 3,88 2798 94,1 55000 10545 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 113,8 59,9 3,88 2798 94,1 55000 10545 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP15 116,9 60,2 3,90 2796 93,9 55000 10541 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WXR 116,9 60,2 3,90 2796 93,9 55000 10541 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 105,2 53,3 3,46 2796 99,0 55000 9911 1,115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 62 104,6 57,1 3,70 2795 98,5 55000 10020 1,129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Retumbo 126,6 66,3 4,30 2788 94,9 55000 11022 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2225 126,6 66,3 4,30 2788 94,9 55000 11022 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 113,8 63,0 4,08 2786 89,2 55000 10646 1,120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 511 101,8 56,5 3,66 2774 97,1 55000 9983 1,125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 518 106,0 57,0 3,69 2773 96,7 55000 10012 1,125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter 105,2 56,6 3,67 2772 97,1 55000 9968 1,125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 104,5 54,4 3,53 2766 98,7 55000 9735 1,146 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP *C 104,8 54,0 3,50 2765 98,6 55000 9708 1,131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 104,8 54,0 3,50 2765 98,6 55000 9705 1,131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 99,3 54,7 3,54 2764 96,3 55000 9899 1,129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760 99,3 54,7 3,54 2764 96,3 55000 9899 1,129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 117,3 59,4 3,85 2763 91,4 55000 10292 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 111,0 59,4 3,85 2763 91,4 55000 10292 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 *C 101,6 54,1 3,50 2761 98,5 55000 9799 1,138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 94,7 53,8 3,48 2759 98,8 55000 9618 1,129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 12 115,2 64,0 4,15 2755 91,4 55000 10446 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 52 95,3 51,2 3,32 2754 100,0 55000 9204 1,138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 517 115,3 64,1 4,15 2753 91,2 55000 10447 1,117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 109,5 57,0 3,70 2752 94,0 55000 9965 1,124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R905 114,7 59,3 3,84 2750 91,4 55000 10024 1,124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 110,1 54,9 3,56 2750 98,8 55000 9528 1,140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 11 97,6 52,5 3,40 2748 99,4 55000 9393 1,133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213 111,6 58,8 3,81 2747 91,2 55000 10149 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110,3 57,4 3,72 2745 93,9 55000 9884 1,125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Big Game 94,5 52,4 3,40 2742 99,4 55000 9295 1,133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Magnum 112,5 63,8 4,13 2740 93,9 55000 10015 1,119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 108,4 56,2 3,64 2740 93,6 55000 9834 1,121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 107,7 54,3 3,52 2739 99,7 55000 9058 1,128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 3100 114,4 59,6 3,86 2737 97,1 55000 9605 1,145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S071 120,9 59,6 3,86 2737 97,1 55000 9605 1,145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 93,8 48,8 3,16 2733 99,5 55000 9277 1,146 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S385 110,3 58,0 3,76 2732 95,4 55000 9667 1,140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA4 107,1 55,7 3,61 2727 93,7 55000 9654 1,127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 107,1 55,7 3,61 2727 93,7 55000 9654 1,127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 *C 103,7 55,7 3,61 2727 93,7 55000 9654 1,127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old 96,9 51,0 3,30 2723 99,8 55000 9106 1,157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP3 96,9 51,0 3,30 2723 99,8 55000 9106 1,157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B *C 95,1 49,5 3,21 2723 99,5 55000 9172 1,147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 94,6 49,3 3,19 2722 99,2 55000 9211 1,146 !DANGEROUS

janfred · Jul 31, 2024, 05:07 PM

I feel that people are too hung up on 100% case-fill. That would be ideal, but you can still get good loads anywhere from 80% to 105%.

Tripodmvr · Jul 31, 2024, 05:31 PM

I am not disputing the 80 to 105% case fill. If you look at 90% plus then there are more choices. These loads are not on a node, except by chance. The ones at the top will however be the most flexible to develop loads with. The info above is just a guide to make a considered choice out of available propellants.

Treeman · Jul 31, 2024, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Tripodmvr on Jul 31, 2024, 05:31 PMI am not disputing the 80 to 105% case fill. If you look at 90% plus then there are more choices. These loads are not on a node, except by chance. The ones at the top will however be the most flexible to develop loads with. The info above is just a guide to make a considered choice out of available propellants.

**********************
The above info helps plenty in more than a few ways.
I have always wanted a bullet to push against the propellant, hate a shake and hear cartridge.

oafpatroll · Jul 31, 2024, 08:40 PM

Quote from: Treeman on Jul 31, 2024, 05:55 PMI have always wanted a bullet to push against the propellant, hate a shake and hear cartridge.

You'll definitely want to avoid dabbling with low velocity cast bullet loads then. My most accurate sub 2000fps 270 Win cast load (133gr Lyman bullet over 22gr of IMR4198 for an 11mm group at 100m) couldn't have been above 50% at a stretch. They were like macarena shakers. If I didn't base it off the Lyman cast bullet manual cross checked against a couple of other published sources I would have assumed it was dangerous.

Tripodmvr · Aug 01, 2024, 10:53 AM

Downloading ammo for lower speeds has its own set of rules. With Somchem S335 is the only "rifle" propellant to use. The Lee reloading manual (1st edition) has very useful info on that topic.

oafpatroll · Aug 01, 2024, 11:01 AM

Quote from: Tripodmvr on Aug 01, 2024, 10:53 AMDownloading ammo for lower speeds has its own set of rules. With Somchem S335 is the only "rifle" propellant to use. The Lee reloading manual (1st edition) has very useful info on that topic.

I went very far down the rabbit hole on the low velocity cast load thing and got all the books I could lay my hands on. The Lyman one was the most comprehensive of the lot. I was never able to lay hands on any 335 so the loads you suggested for the purpose never got a test run. 4198 is available and relatively cheap (R700 a pound at Dave Sheer) so I'll stick with that until something significant changes.

Tripodmvr · Aug 01, 2024, 11:10 AM

4198 will be a good choice as its burning rate is slightly faster than S335.

oafpatroll · Aug 01, 2024, 12:02 PM

Quote from: Tripodmvr on Aug 01, 2024, 11:10 AM4198 will be a good choice as its burning rate is slightly faster than S335.

Thanks for the chart, that's handy. The 4198 based load was the one called out as the 'accurate' load in the lyman book for the bullet and it sure delivered. When I shot an 11mm 5 shot group with it while load developing I assumed it was a fluke but it's proven to be good and consistent. A grain on either side of the 22 and it opens right up. It's great fun to shoot a centre fire rifle with bullets I make for the price of my 9mmP plus a 30c gas check and with less powder than I put in my 12G pigeon loads. The fact that it's accurate enough to shoot dassie or indian mynah is an extra special bonus.

Apologies to Treeman for the hijack. I'll shut up now and let this get back to Epps load data