Enough gun

[BBCT]

In another thread, Treeman mentioned that double speed quadruples the momentum.

Not true. I'm being my engineer self here, so excuse splitting hairs.

Momentum = Mass x Velocity. so double the speed doubles the momentum.

On the other hand Energy = Mass x (Velocity)^2. So double the speed quadruples the energy.

[Ds J]

In another thread, Treeman mentioned that double speed quadruples the momentum.

Not true. I'm being my engineer self here, so excuse splitting hairs.

Momentum = Mass x Velocity. so double the speed doubles the momentum.

On the other hand Energy = Mass x (Velocity)^2. So double the speed quadruples the energy.

This is the reason I didn't become an engineer

Thanks.

[Treeman]

In another thread, Treeman mentioned that double speed quadruples the momentum.

Not true. I'm being my engineer self here, so excuse splitting hairs.

Momentum = Mass x Velocity. so double the speed doubles the momentum.

On the other hand Energy = Mass x (Velocity)^2. So double the speed quadruples the energy.

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Why must you let facts get in the way of a good post ?
Just nod your head sagely in agreement like the rest of the guys around the fire.  I look clever, the guys all look like they understand and the subject lives to become another braai's deep discussion.

[Newton]

t willing to test this  on a free range animal)

Head shots are not a consideration because a head shot wounding on an estate or golf coarse will make you very famous very fast.
 

I would think an "escaped" body shot wounded animal with blood dripping would be a far more - career ending - event ?
I do believe that most professional culling people prefer head shots ?
Lots of shooting experience and from close range and a dead rest.

[Newton]

Another question nagging me? If we used a, say 100 g .223 bullet,
How much of the inefficiency of the .223 can be attributed to 55 g bullets and how much attributed to .223 diameter ?

I am not aware of any readily available 100Gr bullet for the .223 ( .224 )
I think about 75 - 80gr is the largest ?
How long is it and will it fit the action - without going too deep into the case ?
You will also need a very fast twist barrel
Why not try and find a few and test ?

There are a number of other cases / cartridges that use .224 bullets eg 22 Creedmoor




New .224 Cartridge for AR Match Rifles





.224 Cal-83gr Hammer Hunter™


You will now have to add a few more variables to your calculations

[BBCT]

In another thread, Treeman mentioned that double speed quadruples the momentum.

Not true. I'm being my engineer self here, so excuse splitting hairs.

Momentum = Mass x Velocity. so double the speed doubles the momentum.

On the other hand Energy = Mass x (Velocity)^2. So double the speed quadruples the energy.

****************************
Why must you let facts get in the way of a good post ?
Just nod your head sagely in agreement like the rest of the guys around the fire.  I look clever, the guys all look like they understand and the subject lives to become another braai's deep discussion.

I consider myself reprimanded    ;-)

[Shotofrank]

Which is the more important for the purpose of hunting, if one leaned far to one side of the spectrum?. A heavy bullet, a fast bullet or a very big bullet.
I read all the above and came back to that same question. For the sake of clarity, I will give 4 examples I think will stir debate.

55 gr expanding solid .223 bullet at 3800 fps (Shot as an example of speed kills).
220 gr 30 cal  expanding solid at 1650 fps (Shot as an example of very heavy for that caliber).
500 gr 50 cal  expanding solid at 1050 fps (shot as a subsonic big bore the guys mention).
600 gr 70 cal lead ball at 850 fps (shot as example of very heavy, very slow).

I went with a hunter once in Durban and I saw him shoot 2 big bushpig with a .357 lever gun and some very heavy bullets that he had made himself.
 

[Ds J]

55 gr expanding solid .223 bullet at 3800 fps (Shot as an example of speed kills).
220 gr 30 cal  expanding solid at 1650 fps (Shot as an example of very heavy for that caliber).
500 gr 50 cal  expanding solid at 1050 fps (shot as a subsonic big bore the guys mention).
600 gr 70 cal lead ball at 850 fps (shot as example of very heavy, very slow).

You forgot the 270

Serious though - any hunting done at 300m with a 223 on larger animals is just stupid. The chance of a wounded animal is just too great.

In firearm terms, the last three (220gr, 500gr and 600gr) bullets will work magnificently on shorter ranges, but even at 100m or 150m those to heavy ones need to be launched like mortars which out them out of the equation. It leaves the 220gr bullet to do the job.

[oafpatroll]

Shooting at animals with an iffy ammunition choice because you want to  try it out is poor form. No different to hunting drunk. Causing unnecessary suffering to satisfy your curiosity or to stroke your ego makes you a doos.

[Tripodmvr]

The video is a poll to get the members to choose an elk cartridge. For very good reasons the final 3 are the 7mm Rem mag, 280AI and the 300WM. All medium sized cartridges that have proven their efficacy in the USA hunting field. No wonder I choose my 30-06 and 7x64 as my go to hunting rifles.

https://youtu.be/2hLA-QnAokI

[Treeman]

The video is a poll to get the members to choose an elk cartridge. For very good reasons the final 3 are the 7mm Rem mag, 280AI and the 300WM. All medium sized cartridges that have proven their efficacy in the USA hunting field. No wonder I choose my 30-06 and 7x64 as my go to hunting rifles.
https://youtu.be/2hLA-QnAokI

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You only chose the 30 06 as you do not have an .270 Win

[Treeman]

Shooting at animals with an iffy ammunition choice because you want to  try it out is poor form. No different to hunting drunk. Causing unnecessary suffering to satisfy your curiosity or to stroke your ego makes you a doos.

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You sound a lot like me regarding animals and cages, spears and captivity and circus's. I think you got me a bit wrong with the .223  matter Oaf. I have no intention of experimenting or challenging myself with smaller and smaller calibers etc.
I do how ever want to know. I want to know can I allow a 12 year old girl to hunt duiker with her .223 ? can she shoot springbuck, Impala or small warthog, or is it a matter of my original long stated sentiment - the .223 is not a hunting caliber.   I have and still believe that the 243 is not to be advised as an hunting rifle,even if just springbuck its just to borderline.
Does a 5.56 mm hole kill that much less effectively than a 6.86 hole ?. One mm. Apparently that is the case.
Is it the bullet weight or the hole ? Does velocity negate some of the weight loss or does the size of the hole just beat them all.

I want to know, need to know, because this is what I do once - twice a month 80 % of the time with someone else shooting. When we go remove an injured Impala out a group at night, can I use a .223 to shoot it at night with a spotlight, I do not like headshots, for your reasons.
 

[Tripodmvr]

1. Calibre - a bullet normally doubles in frontal size as it expands
   .224 = .448 = 11.4mm
   .243 = .486 = 12.3mm
   6.5 = 13mm
   .277 = .554 = 14.1mm
   7.2 = 14.4mm
   7.82 = 15,6mm

As can be seen and from practical experience as from the 270 the damage done by the bullet increases so as to be an important factor.

2. A friend of mine taught some youngsters to hunt game up to Impala size with his 223. He used Goodnel 55gr monolithic hollow points and reported nil game lost. The monos have the penetration ability that can reach both lungs.
3. Shooting at night with a spot light you get up close to the animal and headshots become feasible. Here a cup and core bullet will cause sufficient damage on smaller game to ensure one shot kills.
4. For many years the 243 was designated as the entry level hunting rifle. It punches way above its weight and I  have shot many springbuck with it. It is also more effective on Impala and blesbuck. My experience was with mono bullets.
5. With the use of silencers youngsters can easily step up to heavier calibres that provide more lethality.

[oafpatroll]

Shooting at animals with an iffy ammunition choice because you want to  try it out is poor form. No different to hunting drunk. Causing unnecessary suffering to satisfy your curiosity or to stroke your ego makes you a doos.

**********************************
You sound a lot like me regarding animals and cages, spears and captivity and circus's. I think you got me a bit wrong with the .223  matter Oaf. I have no intention of experimenting or challenging myself with smaller and smaller calibers etc.
I do how ever want to know. I want to know can I allow a 12 year old girl to hunt duiker with her .223 ? can she shoot springbuck, Impala or small warthog, or is it a matter of my original long stated sentiment - the .223 is not a hunting caliber.   I have and still believe that the 243 is not to be advised as an hunting rifle,even if just springbuck its just to borderline.
Does a 5.56 mm hole kill that much less effectively than a 6.86 hole ?. One mm. Apparently that is the case.
Is it the bullet weight or the hole ? Does velocity negate some of the weight loss or does the size of the hole just beat them all.

I want to know, need to know, because this is what I do once - twice a month 80 % of the time with someone else shooting. When we go remove an injured Impala out a group at night, can I use a .223 to shoot it at night with a spotlight, I do not like headshots, for your reasons.
 

Understood. For the record I wasn't accusing you. It was a general observation by someone who gets mouthy at people in the field who treat animals with disrespect and cruelty. In the hands of someone who shoots a lot of animals an 'iffy' calibre isn't the same as for a typist muppet like me. 

[Ds J]

A 223 can kill - very fast, very efficiently, but with the right shot placement.

'n Goeie vriend van my skiet amper alles met sy 223, en hy het sy kinders ook leer jag met dieselfde 223. Nogtans verkies hy 'n groter kaliber vir groter wild, want daar is net meer ruimte indien iets sou skeefloop.

To answer your question regarding the girl, please consider the following: one has to take her psyche and her capabilities into account. If she has been practicing with the 223 for the past year for her first animal, and the animals are not too wild or shy, let her use it.  Maybe stand by with another rifle. Giving her another rifle to hunt with has the potential to throw her off her game and causing a wounded animal, where her own rifle would have meant a kil shot.