Hanging, ageing meat.

Started by Treeman, Nov 02, 2024, 07:23 PM

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Againstthegrains

Quote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.

+1 that's what I do.

Treeman

Quote from: Againstthegrains on Nov 10, 2024, 09:51 PM
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.

+1 that's what I do.
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so be it then, this will be my starting point.
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

Ds J

Treeman, this only works if the cooler maintains a constant 2 - 4 degrees. If it goed up to 6 degrees, the chance of spoilt meat becomes real.

Please check on the unit often for the first few days.

oafpatroll

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a remote monitoring gadget available from Temu of AliExpress or similar for not very much money.

Treeman

I laugh at myself now, I just cannot believe how chuffed I am, been long since I felt so ???? Lucky ? Like gees, I  actually got one.
Its a strange sense because it does not really do much more than stand there, colder perhaps ya, but not much to get excited about. I guess its because I realized long ago that I would never have one, that's why I built the mini cold room, and then second one as well
For what its worth, those mine cold rooms I built were really REALLY worth their weight in gold. R3500 at most if you buy the freezer, 1000 if you use your old one.
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

Againstthegrains

Quote from: Treeman on Nov 12, 2024, 01:44 AM
Quote from: Againstthegrains on Nov 10, 2024, 09:51 PM
Quote from: Tripodmvr on Nov 02, 2024, 08:23 PMThe ageing period that I have heard of is 2 weeks at 2-4 degrees. Skin on would help with the meat being fresh on the outside with no dry biltong type layer.

+1 that's what I do.
******************************************
so be it then, this will be my starting point.

I like your style. It looks like Treeman is going to be a lot experiments in the future ;D

Againstthegrains

The only thing I can add to the cold-room story is the importance of the circumstances under which the animals are butchered/ field dressed.

In Short: Keep the flies off at all costs.

I say this for a few reasons:

1) If you hunt on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter, no problem there are no flies around, but in early/late or out of season hunts this is a big issue.

2) To field dress or not? - There is a fine line between field dressing on a hot day and having a thousand flies zooming all over the animal and keeping it closed to dress at the farm behind the mesh. If you leave it too long, the gas builds up and the animal is about to explode inside and spill guts all over the meat. Make your choice wisely.

3) Field dressed animals left in the veld for any amount of time will be found by flies if they are around. They will go inside and lay tiny little bunches or single long thin white eggs (they hatch into maggots). These can be carefully washed or scraped out. The eggs are not a major problem, because they won't hatch in the cool room. Too cold. Always check the inside cavity for these before you hang your meat.

4) Sitting flies - this is a major problem, because flies sit on shit and anything else that is covered in bacteria. When they walk all over the meat, they inoculate these bacteria onto the meat. This cocktail of bacteria are able to grow under really cold conditions, and after a week, the meat starts to go sticky and smell bad. This smell goes right into the meat, so avoid like the plague. Note, that the meat under the skin of an animal is sterile, until the skin is removed. A cleanly slaughtered animal will just dry out in the cold room and develop a dry biltong like texture the longer you leave it, but with fly contaminated meat, the bacteria produce proteinase enzymes that digest the meat, and make it go sticky and stinky. Nothing freaks me out more than a bunch of skinners working on a hot day in the open with flies sitting all over the freshly skinned meat. Say something - don't let them do it.

5) Skin just before you butcher - if you do decide to hang your meat to get it a bit more tender, it is best to keep the skin on, especially on smaller game that will dry out quickly. (cool rooms tend to have low humidity). The time you loose skinning the animal, you will make up when you work the animal, as you don't have to cut out the dry outer layer. If there has been some fly contamination on the inside, it only affects the meat around the ribs, so its easy to cut it out or chuck it as it is not much there any way. Skin on prevents the above scenario.

6) Shoot it in the head - Not always an option, but if you hang a heart lung shot animal with the skin on. All the blood goo is trapped under the skin to fester. It sounds horrific, but is not that bad. An abattoir is by law obliged to cut this out from the carcass as it can potentially be a health hazard, but in reality, blood contains natural anti-bacterial compounds that confer some level of protection. Further, the blood clots and generally stops the spread of bacteria. I have been cautious about hanging shoulder shot animals (skin on) for too long because of the risk, but you can normally get away with a 7-10 days in this condition at the right temperature. Head shot animals in the jacket can age longer than 7-10 days without the risk of drying or rotting and should be hung at the back of the cold room if you have a lot of meat to work.

Happy chilling 8)


Treeman

Thank you, u have contributed a lot to me, and also refreshed old knowledge.
Cody and I have started to spray with a mister filled with white vinegar and if a I have any, citric acid. We just spray all surfaces wet, even the tables and boards knives, everything gets wetted.

Your take on this ?
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

Againstthegrains

Quote from: Treeman on Nov 14, 2024, 06:54 PMThank you, u have contributed a lot to me, and also refreshed old knowledge.
Cody and I have started to spray with a mister filled with white vinegar and if a I have any, citric acid. We just spray all surfaces wet, even the tables and boards knives, everything gets wetted.

Your take on this ?

When bacteria grow, they produce organic acids (such as lactic acid) and CO2 as a byproduct of their metabolism. As the acid levels build up, the pH drops, and the low pH starts to inhibit further growth. To fast track this bacterial inhibition, we can make a synthetic acidic environment by adding acid such as vinegar and citric acid which are food safe, and not going to eat through your hands, cloths and chopping board. This forms the basis of pickling foods. Also the reason why you should dip your biltong in vinegar before you hang it. It also makes sense to add vinegar to your boerewors/droewors, as if there is any contaminated meat in the mince, it retards any further growth/ development of the rot.

If you keep all the surfaces where you work acidic, then it inhibits bacterial growth on them. It makes sense and is perhaps a useful practice.

With that said, there are bacteria where ever you work, on the meat, on your skin, in the air etc and we are doing butchery, not surgery (although I sometimes have doubts as to the distinction ;) ) so, as long as things are clean, you should be fine. No need to go nuclear with Jik etc, just soap and water is enough to get rid of the bulk of the microbes. With time, and as our knowledge grows, I am leaning less and less in the direction of scorched earth policies against bacteria, as we need them as part of our gut flora and microbiome, and they help our immune system by out competing bad microbes and by keep our immune system fit. For the same reason that most babies with colic, land up in the emergency ward because the home environment is too sterile due to over motherly mothers or fathers.

Hence, if there is food spoilage happening, our bodies are more able to deal with common household bugs than some weird super survivor strain of bacteria that is acid, hyperchloride, anti-biotic resistant etc.

Hence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.

Treeman

Hence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.
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If I recall correctly, you are some kinda mad scientist guy  ;) . You like a scientist or something like that ? Scientist Doctor, so I am from past conversation pretty assured you are expressing facts and not opinions.

You mention soap and water twice, like your preferred method, ? Now, I do not like soap that much - man made chemicals and taste etc. Why do you not mention things like alcohol and household acids with more preference ?

I like acids and alcohol because I can get it on my tools and foods with out secondary results, unlike soap ?
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

janfred

You may want to keep acids away from any metals you do not want rusting.

Alcohols are not great for your skin long term unless mixed with a skin moisturizer. Hence why soap and water is a better alternative.

Normal household detergents and cleaning agents all contain fragrance; even bleach. Normal green sunlight liquid is probably the most benign. For the less fragrant varieties you can contact industrial users or hotel suppliers.

A cheaper alternative is to contact one of the companies that mix their own cleaning agents and ask them to mix you some without fragrance and colourants.

Treeman

Quote from: janfred on Nov 17, 2024, 03:15 AMYou may want to keep acids away from any metals you do not want rusting.

Alcohols are not great for your skin long term unless mixed with a skin moisturizer. Hence why soap and water is a better alternative.

Normal household detergents and cleaning agents all contain fragrance; even bleach. Normal green sunlight liquid is probably the most benign. For the less fragrant varieties you can contact industrial users or hotel suppliers.

A cheaper alternative is to contact one of the companies that mix their own cleaning agents and ask them to mix you some without fragrance and colourants.
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Till proven otherwise I will stay with about a 30 % vinegar mix for food and touching cleaning. Soaps for walls and floors and after working cleaning. Pre work rinse - light acids - alcohol.
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

Againstthegrains

Quote from: Treeman on Nov 16, 2024, 09:41 PMHence, keep things clean with soap and water, and you're pretty much sorted.
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If I recall correctly, you are some kinda mad scientist guy  ;) . You like a scientist or something like that ? Scientist Doctor, so I am from past conversation pretty assured you are expressing facts and not opinions.

You mention soap and water twice, like your preferred method, ? Now, I do not like soap that much - man made chemicals and taste etc. Why do you not mention things like alcohol and household acids with more preference ?

I like acids and alcohol because I can get it on my tools and foods with out secondary results, unlike soap ?

Guilty as charged. PhD Medical Microbiology 8)

I am going on what is cheap and pragmatic. There are bacteria everywhere. We are wasting our time trying to work in a sterile environment. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE MEAT PROCESSING EXERCISE IS TO KEEP YOUR COLD CHAIN INTACT!!!!

I cannot emphasize this more. If there are bacteria all over something, they only grow when it is warm enough. If the cold chain lapses for any amount of time, you are in trouble. that is the most important concept to grasp. Watch your temperatures and limit your time that your food spends outside those cold temperatures.

The next most important thing is to keep stuff clean. It doesn't have to be sterile just clean. A wash with soap and water and a rinse with hot water to get rid of any soap residue is cheap and effective. Rinse with vinegar is also fine, and can't do any harm.

My point, is that there is no point in making war with bacteria, as you will never win. That's why the COLD CHAIN is your friend.

Treeman

You make good sense yes, I forgot that I knew about temperature. I also knew its more important than cleaning, I had just forgotten that I knew.
I am who I am - I am not who you want me to be.
Therefore I am me.

oafpatroll

I'm quite convinced of the folly of trying to live in a sterile environment. One of my relatives is a clean freak nutcase and her environment was continuously cleaned and disinfected and only filtered water was consumed in her home. Her kids weren't allowed to walk barefoot and I never saw them even a bit grubby. She, her husband and the two kids were the most sickly bunch of people I've ever come across despite coming from the same good cockroach stock as the rest of us who wallowed in the muck like pigs.