What Is Copper Solvent ?

[JamesNotBond]

 I recently again used the .303 that I bought for Treeman, and he took me through the cleaning process after our shooting. He used some bore cleaner to remove copper from the barrel and I took some of this cleaner home to clean some of my fathers old war items.
I was quiet surprised to find that the cleaner did nothing to the brass, copper items, why is this ?
How does this cleaner work in a barrel if it does not work on an ornament ?

[big5ifty]

Copper bore cleaner dissolves copper, it doesn't clean it or polish it up by removing the oxidation layer.

The variety I use leaves a distinct blue tinge on the cloth patches, and I can see the copper in the bore before application, and not after, so I know it's removing copper.

It may not be working on the copper item if the copper is heavily oxidised - the oxidation layer may be chemically inert to the copper solvents used to clean rifle bores.

On copper items, use Brasso instead, it just removes the oxidation layer.

[Ds J]

It is due toe the chemical composition of brass. It usually cleans the brass, but dissolves the copper. Your brass cleaning equipment should be dull, but very clean, whereas the copper is dissolved completely.

[Treeman]

As some of you will know, I try make my own everything - or at least beat the cost of labelling. So I got around to buying a couple of copper - brass cleaners in an attempt to find a bore cleaner labelled something else. All of my efforts so far have found cleaners, but no dissolvers - in other words, the agents work on the oxidised surfaces, but do no harm to the parent material.
I have learnt of many agents that will dissolve copper, brass, but they are all harsh, dangerous and have side affects on steel or blueing.

I always remember spending some time with Gerrie Schults and he saying about his product, " Dave, the biggest problem my product has is that the user does not understand that it needs oxygen to work".
He proceeded to tell me that more was less, his product needed to be applied molecule thick so it could have a surface contact of oxygen through it.
So yea, I make my own stock oils, wax, penetrating oil and gun oils, but copper remover - not yet.

[Ds J]

Your prescription of vinegar and peroxide works well, as does the Q5 trick. The left me with a shining bore in my 303.

[zguy]

Your prescription of vinegar and peroxide works well, as does the Q5 trick. The left me with a shining bore in my 303.

Just be careful when mixing lead with vinegar and peroxide , you create a lead compound that is skin absorbable.
Lead acetate is highly toxic.

[Treeman]

Just be careful when mixing lead with vinegar and peroxide , you create a lead compound that is skin absorbable.
Lead acetate is highly toxic.
[/quote]
Yea, I believe its one of the "not exaggerated" claims on the net.

[JamesNotBond]

Copper bore cleaner dissolves copper, it doesn't clean it or polish it up by removing the oxidation layer.

The variety I use leaves a distinct blue tinge on the cloth patches, and I can see the copper in the bore before application, and not after, so I know it's removing copper.

It may not be working on the copper item if the copper is heavily oxidised - the oxidation layer may be chemically inert to the copper solvents used to clean rifle bores.

On copper items, use Brasso instead, it just removes the oxidation layer.

You mention Brasso ? Is Brasso not an rubbing compound, effect by abrasive's ?

[big5ifty]

Yes. Brasso is abrasive, but not enough to remove material from the surface, just emough to polish.

Which is better than potentially dissolving the copper.

[Treeman]

Interesting this, then why is Brasso not used to clean rifle bores ?

[Rumple]

I use this to clean my barrels...

[big5ifty]

I use this to clean my barrels...

+1

It's my go to copper solvent.

I find it very similar, including the smell, to Butch's Bore Shine.

[janfred]

Brasso is a mixture of ammonia, kerosene and talcum powder.

The ammonia corrodes the copper, the talcum is a fine abrasive that abrades the corrosion away. The kerosene acts as a carrier fluid.

Something does not shine if the surface is covered with a lot of sharp points and pitting. To polish something to shine you can do that in 3 methods.

First, fill in all the pitts with a shiny substance like wax. Think car or floor polish.

Second, flatten all the sharp points into the pitting. This is what "needling" was back in the day. Also why button rifled barrels have such a nice and smooth finish in the bore.

Lastly, you can scrape all the sharp points away until the whole surface is level with the bottom of the pitting. Similar to what hand-lapping does to a barrel. This is also what brasso does with brass and copper and polishing compound does with metals.

[JamesNotBond]

Brasso is a mixture of ammonia, kerosene and talcum powder.

The ammonia corrodes the copper, the talcum is a fine abrasive that abrades the corrosion away. The kerosene acts as a carrier fluid.

Something does not shine if the surface is covered with a lot of sharp points and pitting. To polish something to shine you can do that in 3 methods.

First, fill in all the pitts with a shiny substance like wax. Think car or floor polish.

Second, flatten all the sharp points into the pitting. This is what "needling" was back in the day. Also why button rifled barrels have such a nice and smooth finish in the bore.

Lastly, you can scrape all the sharp points away until the whole surface is level with the bottom of the pitting. Similar to what hand-lapping does to a barrel. This is also what brasso does with brass and copper and polishing compound does with metals.

The above explanation is really well put across, thank you very much. The Kerosene matter is fascinating.

[Treeman]

So why is Brasso not a barrel cleaner - Soft Talc and all ?