The 358 Winchester

An excellent bushveld cartridge it should be indeed.

The availability of rifles and ammo on this side of the pond has always been close to zero, so it never had a chance.

The closest we have to it is the 338 Sabi, which is based on a 30-06 length case and slightly more powerful.

The 35 Whelen is also almost unknown.

It, or something very much like it is probably just round the corner and will arrive with great fanfare and some silly marketing name like BuckThumper.

I like the .35 calibres and am particularly intrigued by the .35 Remington. Popular as a "bush" load in the US, chambered in assorted lever action rifles as well as the Remington model 8 semi auto and a few others that I can't remember offhand. Somewhere between the 358 Winchester and a 357 Magnum on Steroids. I reckon it would be just the business for hunting anything up to a kudu in close bush (as would the 358 Win).

Not many 358 bore rifles of any chambering in SA as far as I can tell.

The popular 9.3x62 has had a great impact on the use of the .358 calibres in South Africa. Components, rifles and ammo are more freely available and it already had a good reputation from way back. The range of 358 rifle bullets is also very much smaller than those of the 366 bullets.

The 35 Whelin and the .358 are both absolute mysteries to myself, they both seem to be the absolute middle caliber and both just seem to have no following, I say it's just marketing and market control.
As said above, I believe both will get their turn as the "must" have caliber for a fad term, manufacturers have to revive old, good calibers to keep the industry alive and active, over and above just ticking over type market activity.

The cartridge started out in 1955 and was simply a .308 Win case necked up to .358. The bullets used went right up to 250 gr delivered at 2250 fps or 2500 fps for the lighter 180 gr bullet, good short to medium range velocities for low meat damage and deep penetration.

I enjoy Ron Spomer as well - especially his talks on the different cartridges
I now have a virtual - cartridge collection

IF you want one of these just - neck up a .308 and get some projectiles

What might be interesting are the short action cartridges (PRC) based on the 375 Ruger
One does not have to stick to exactly 51mm in a short action

I am thinking a 338 caliber based on a 53mm case

Bet you never heard of this one ..

300 Ruger Compact Magnum

See image in this web-page

Hornady 6.5 PRC

THAT would make a nice bush short action cartridge - and - be popular IF developed by Hornady !

Should be easy to "wildcat"

Seems the 338 RCM has already been produced
Some love it , some hate it

338 RCM

338 RCM Load Data

You can pick up a three die set at a giveaway price

Redding Three DIe Set

How about the 350 Remington Magnum ?

350 Rem Mag Belted

One of the early Short action cartridges based off the old 375 H&H

Neck it down to 338 and machine off the belt

Take a HOWA 6,5 PRC magnum short action add a 338 bull barrel and a nice laminated wooden stock plus a good muzzle brake or suppressor
and
You could have a nice short bush rifle

As much as I like the idea of the 358 Win, I need to ask why it didn't gain popularity?

The gaps between cartridges are getting smaller and smaller. Are there less trend setting calibres over the last few decades?

The last big craze (6.5 Creedmoor) - in my opinion - was popular because it delivered a flat trajectory without heavy recoil, yet enough killing power for hunting. Bargain!

Please test this idea: the 358 Win reminds me of the old, slow calibres like the 45-70 or the 444 Marlin. Very good for one application, but close to useless for general work. NNB: not necessarily on paper, but by feeling. It is a 308 case with a thicker, heavier, slower bullet. No thanks!

[ It is a 308 case with a thicker, heavier, slower bullet. No thanks!

*****************************
Slower ?
220 gr bullet at 2500 fps, 180 gr bullet at 2700 fps, thats 308 -165 gr bullet speeds ?

[ It is a 308 case with a thicker, heavier, slower bullet. No thanks!

*****************************
Slower ?
220 gr bullet at 2500 fps, 180 gr bullet at 2700 fps, thats 308 -165 gr bullet speeds ?

It is indeed a very efficient cartridge, and also well suited to shorter barrels.
This makes it very desirable in a single shot hunting handgun and a short-barreled suppressed hunting rifle.

Not being unnecessary hard cased here - I just don't get it yet.

Wikipedia gives max pressure for the 308 at 62 000psi, and for the 358 at 52 000CUP. (Does psi equal CPU?)

How is it possible to fire a heavier bullet, with lower pressure, at a higher speed?

Messor mentioned that bullet diameter affects attainable bullet speed, and that it is easier to drive shorter, larger bullets at the same speed as longer, thinner bullets of the same weight. (If memory serves correct. )

Well, the bullet is driven by gas pressure measured in pounds per square inch.

So for .358
(0.358"/2)^2xPix52,000psi=5,234.3 pounds force

And for 308
(0.308"/2)^2xPix62,000psi=4,6194 pounds force

Wikipedia gives max pressure for the 308 at 62 000psi, and for the 358 at 52 000CUP. (Does psi equal CPU?)

It's not the same unit of measure. This is apparently the formula for conversion: To calculate PSI from CUP, multiply the cooper pressure units by 1.516, then subtract 17902

If that's accurate it puts them very nearly on par with the 358 being 60 930psi.

How is it possible to fire a heavier bullet, with lower pressure, at a higher speed?

As a rule of thumb, when all other things are equal, the bullet with the greater cross sectional area can be launched at a higher velocity.

Janfred gave the maths, but to use an example we can all relate to, a 150gr bullet from a .30-06 can be launched at a higher muzzle velocity than a 150gr bulet from a .270 when all other things are equal. We all know that the .30-06 and .270 cases are for all practical purposes the same other than neck diameter, we can even use the same powder (S365) in both. The .30-06 bullet will however lose velocity faster than the .270 due to greater frontal area hence less sectional density for the same bullet weight.

The fact that the bullet can be launched at higher velocity as well as the fact that it loses velocity faster are both attributable to the cross sectional area of the bullet via the formula Force = Pressure x Area, which tells us that for the same pressure, a greater area will give us more force.

Now that I read back on this, I'm not so sure that I've explained it as well as it can be explained, but hopefully you'll get the idea............

Die Brits maak my moeg ;)

n Langer, dunner koeël trek beter deur die lug as n dikker, korter koeël van dieselfde gewig.

En n dikker, korter koeël word makliker gedryf omdat die dryfgas meer vatplek aan die korter koeël het.

Dus behoort n 358 beter weg te trek, en die 308 behoort beter oor n langer afstand te trek as die koeëls se gewigte ooreenstem.

My bad. Teach me to read what is actually there...

I was under the impression that there is no reliable way to convert between CUP and PSI.

Whatever the actual allowable maximum pressure, the calculations show that bore size trumps pressure. At least for the initial acceleration. Next would be available case capacity that would govern how long the pressure is maintained.

How is it possible to fire a heavier bullet, with lower pressure, at a higher speed?

As a rule of thumb, when all other things are equal, the bullet with the greater cross sectional area can be launched at a higher velocity.

Janfred gave the maths, but to use an example we can all relate to, a 150gr bullet from a .30-06 can be launched at a higher muzzle velocity than a 150gr bulet from a .270 when all other things are equal. We all know that the .30-06 and .270 cases are for all practical purposes the same other than neck diameter, we can even use the same powder (S365) in both. The .30-06 bullet will however lose velocity faster than the .270 due to greater frontal area hence less sectional density for the same bullet weight.

The fact that the bullet can be launched at higher velocity as well as the fact that it loses velocity faster are both attributable to the cross sectional area of the bullet via the formula Force = Pressure x Area, which tells us that for the same pressure, a greater area will give us more force.

Now that I read back on this, I'm not so sure that I've explained it as well as it can be explained, but hopefully you'll get the idea............

*************************
Yes, it is put across well enough.

Die Brits maak my moeg ;)

n Langer, dunner koeël trek beter deur die lug as n dikker, korter koeël van dieselfde gewig.

En n dikker, korter koeël word makliker gedryf omdat die dryfgas meer vatplek aan die korter koeël het.

Dus behoort n 358 beter weg te trek, en die 308 behoort beter oor n langer afstand te trek as die koeëls se gewigte ooreenstem.

Jy't dit korter en beterererder beskryf as wat ek kon. ;-)