Check these numbers out _-_ Big Eyes I got.

Impressive shooting! It is basically a 100% hit rate.

How does that compare to Annie Oakley's work?

The period around the turn of the last century produced some truly remarkable marksmen. Pope and Louverin are worth looking up for some of the things they did at range with open sights and guns and components they designed and built themselves.

But how? With the ammunition and engineering abilities of those days ?
Were there rifles able to group moment of action back then, I always thought 3 inch grouping a 100 yrs ago was considered remarkable.

But how? With the ammunition and engineering abilities of those days ?
Were there rifles able to group moment of action back then, I always thought 3 inch grouping a 100 yrs ago was considered remarkable.

A few ideas come to mind:
- shooting was cheaper which means they practised more
- folks took more time which means they practised more
- maybe they sought out accurate rifles
- I had a standard G98 8x57 Mauser from roughly 1902 and easily shot a 2" group on my first outing with open sights

But how? With the ammunition and engineering abilities of those days ?
Were there rifles able to group moment of action back then, I always thought 3 inch grouping a 100 yrs ago was considered remarkable.

I'll see if I can dig up some articles on the two gents I mentioned, I think you will be quite surprised. Both were Bisley and Schutzen competitors. Louverin was most well known for the many bullets he designed and Pope for the rifles he designed and built. There's a misconception about what was possible in terms of precision in measurement and machining at that period. Things that need to be were held to to silly fine tolerances but it was controlled by people rather than digital machines. Just consider naval gunnery and optics as examples. Huge guns firing very, very long distances accurately with seamen observing with binocular and telescopes that were more than up to the task. My great grandfather had a pair of binoculars he used at sea in the First World War that I got to try out in the early 80's. They were ever so slightly fogged on one side of the image but were otherwise crystal clear and unbelievably sharp.

Will have a look later for the thing I saved which had 1000 yard cast bullet results but here's something about Pope in the meantime

https://sandiegoschutzenguilde.org/History/HarryPope.html

Another thing: the exhibition shooters often used .22 rifles on shorter distances. If memory serves correct, Annie Oakley used a Remington semi-!
auto which was not cleaned for several hundred thousand shots.

I had a standard G98 8x57 Mauser from roughly 1902 and easily shot a 2" group on my first outing with open sights

As a matter of interest ..

The 8x57 was produced in 1888 but as the Patrone 88 J or { I ) bullet diameter .318
A redesigned cartridge the 8x57 IS ( JS ) was produced between 1903 - 1905 with a bullet diameter of .323
Still produced today
Better not fire a modern cartridge in an older gun

From the Google AI ... ;D
//
Here is a breakdown of the cartridge dates associated with the G98 rifle:

1888: The original M/88 cartridge (also known as the 8x57 J, for Infanterie, or Infantry) was adopted. This round used a 226-grain, .318-inch diameter round-nose bullet. The G98 rifle, introduced in 1898, was initially designed for this M/88 ammunition.
1903–1905: The German military officially adopted the improved S Patrone (spitzer or pointed bullet) cartridge, designated as 7.92×57mm Mauser (or 8x57 IS/JS). This version used a lighter, 154-grain, .323-inch diameter spitzer bullet, which offered a flatter trajectory and higher velocity.

Rifles were often modified to accept the newer "S" bore cartridge, indicated by a small "S" stamp on the receiver and barrel. When handling any older Mauser rifle, it is crucial to determine which of the two non-interchangeable chamberings it uses before firing, as using the larger .323-inch bullet in a barrel designed for the smaller .318-inch bullet is dangerous. A gunsmith can perform a chamber cast to confirm the correct bore diameter and chamber dimensions. \

Yes, I found out the hard way. I received some old WWII German ammunition, still wrapped in their cardboard packaging and decided to shoot it.

I had a hangfire, which was to be expected, but definite signs of high pressure. When I started research, I realised the old barrel was original. 318".

Unfortunately, I had to sell the rifle.

I had a standard G98 8x57 Mauser from roughly 1902 and easily shot a 2" group on my first outing with open sights

As a matter of interest ..

The 8x57 was produced in 1888 but as the Patrone 88 J or { I ) bullet diameter .318
A redesigned cartridge the 8x57 IS ( JS ) was produced between 1903 - 1905 with a bullet diameter of .323
Still produced today
Better not fire a modern cartridge in an older gun

From the Google AI ... ;D
//
Here is a breakdown of the cartridge dates associated with the G98 rifle:

1888: The original M/88 cartridge (also known as the 8x57 J, for Infanterie, or Infantry) was adopted. This round used a 226-grain, .318-inch diameter round-nose bullet. The G98 rifle, introduced in 1898, was initially designed for this M/88 ammunition.
1903–1905: The German military officially adopted the improved S Patrone (spitzer or pointed bullet) cartridge, designated as 7.92×57mm Mauser (or 8x57 IS/JS). This version used a lighter, 154-grain, .323-inch diameter spitzer bullet, which offered a flatter trajectory and higher velocity.

Rifles were often modified to accept the newer "S" bore cartridge, indicated by a small "S" stamp on the receiver and barrel. When handling any older Mauser rifle, it is crucial to determine which of the two non-interchangeable chamberings it uses before firing, as using the larger .323-inch bullet in a barrel designed for the smaller .318-inch bullet is dangerous. A gunsmith can perform a chamber cast to confirm the correct bore diameter and chamber dimensions. \

I had a standard G98 8x57 Mauser from roughly 1902 and easily shot a 2" group on my first outing with open sights

As a matter of interest ..

The 8x57 was produced in 1888 but as the Patrone 88 J or { I ) bullet diameter .318
A redesigned cartridge the 8x57 IS ( JS ) was produced between 1903 - 1905 with a bullet diameter of .323
Still produced today
Better not fire a modern cartridge in an older gun

From the Google AI ... ;D
//
Here is a breakdown of the cartridge dates associated with the G98 rifle:

1888: The original M/88 cartridge (also known as the 8x57 J, for Infanterie, or Infantry) was adopted. This round used a 226-grain, .318-inch diameter round-nose bullet. The G98 rifle, introduced in 1898, was initially designed for this M/88 ammunition.
1903–1905: The German military officially adopted the improved S Patrone (spitzer or pointed bullet) cartridge, designated as 7.92×57mm Mauser (or 8x57 IS/JS). This version used a lighter, 154-grain, .323-inch diameter spitzer bullet, which offered a flatter trajectory and higher velocity.

Rifles were often modified to accept the newer "S" bore cartridge, indicated by a small "S" stamp on the receiver and barrel. When handling any older Mauser rifle, it is crucial to determine which of the two non-interchangeable chamberings it uses before firing, as using the larger .323-inch bullet in a barrel designed for the smaller .318-inch bullet is dangerous. A gunsmith can perform a chamber cast to confirm the correct bore diameter and chamber dimensions. \

***********************************
Go research the Euro? versus the USA 7 mm bullet fiasco

***********************************
Go research the Euro? versus the USA 7 mm bullet fiasco

Go research the difference between
CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente)
and
SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute)

Even the chamber reamers are different