Lee neck size collet die set - Your thoughts?

[jager]

How do you adjust the mandrels?

I think that most of the perceived advantages of a collet die are not limited to collet dies. Concentricity is not any better or worse than a bushing die. I cannot see how it would make cases last any longer than a bushing neck-sizing die.

The only practical advantages I can see is that Lee dies are cheaper than other brands and that no case lubrication is required for case sizing.

The disadavntage of a collet die is that actual neck-sizing is dependent on how much force you place on the handle when sizing.

The difference is a collet die sizes the inside of the neck to the size of the mandrel. It's not particularly sensitive to how much pressure you apply. A wide range of pressures will result in the same interior neck size.

A bushing die sizes the outside of the neck, yet the bullet goes on the inside. If you didn't do neck turning on all your cases, the inside diameter and neck tension will not be consistent.

[223]

How do you adjust the mandrels?

The mandrels come with a relatively large diameter from the factory resulting in minimal bullet grip.  If you want more grip, you can polish the mandrel down to give as much grip as you want.  Neck size is determined by the mandrel diameter.  Mandrels are available separately, so you can keep different diameter mandrels if you so wish.

I think that most of the perceived advantages of a collet die are not limited to collet dies. Concentricity is not any better or worse than a bushing die. I cannot see how it would make cases last any longer than a bushing neck-sizing die.

Concentricity should be the same as with a bushing die set for the same bullet grip.  The more you size the neck when sizing, and stretch again when seating, the more it can by pushed off-center.  The less you size and stretch it, the closer to center you will end.  This is why some shooters size for minimal bullet grip (amongst other reasons).

The only practical advantages I can see is that Lee dies are cheaper than other brands and that no case lubrication is required for case sizing.

Those advantages seem real to me.

The disadvantage of a collet die is that actual neck-sizing is dependent on how much force you place on the handle when sizing.

No, that is not how they work.  The inside neck size is determined by the mandrel, which is as fixed as it gets.  If you are pedantic about the force applied, you can use a torque wrench as a lever on your press, but I think it is a waste of time.

[Newton]

IF one had a lot of money then one could buy them ALL and have fun testing
or
IF one was a member of a good reloading club the costs could be split / shared
Dies could then be rented out to members.

[Againstthegrains]

IF one had a lot of money then one could buy them ALL and have fun testing

I think with reloading, once you do the basics right, and get your groups down to certain size, it get statistically more difficult to prove that something does actually make a difference.

If you do some basic power/sample size calculations, you will find out that you need to shoot a hell of a lot of bullets to prove that there is 10% improvement in group size.

[oafpatroll]

Some people like to spend money to chase their particular rabbit down its hole. My gut feel is that 90 percent of the money spent on fancy reloading gear achieves nothing meaningful in the hands of its spenders that basic gear couldn't achieve.

[Tripodmvr]

Some people like to spend money to chase their particular rabbit down its hole. My gut feel is that 90 percent of the money spent on fancy reloading gear achieves nothing meaningful in the hands of its spenders that basic gear couldn't achieve.

I agree. I am only using Lee dies that i started off with, way back, to achieve better than MOA with my rifles. The collet dies save a hell of a lot of time to achieve excellent results. Only my 7x64 does not have one.

[Newton]

Some people like to spend money to chase their particular rabbit down its hole. My gut feel is that 90 percent of the money spent on fancy reloading gear achieves nothing meaningful in the hands of its spenders that basic gear couldn't achieve.

When you are competing in FClass open at World Class level you cannot afford to ignore anything.
I do not know if anyone has reached that level - and prepared to take that chance - using "basic-gear"
I would be very interested to see someone compete AND win at this level with - "basic gear"
I hope someone tries ....

[Newton]

I think with reloading, once you do the basics right, and get your groups down to certain size, it get statistically more difficult to prove that something does actually make a difference.
If you do some basic power/sample size calculations, you will find out that you need to shoot a hell of a lot of bullets to prove that there is 10% improvement in group size.

IF you like stats / math / formulas
Have you had a look at Keith Glasscock's channel ?

See below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ4TteX4QGM

I think the guy uses very heavy maths / stats in his day time job

[BBCT]

The first Lee collet die I got was for .308 and I was sufficiently pleased with it that I now also use them for .223, .303 and 7x64 (280 Rem).

At my skill level and accuracy requirements (I don't bother to develop the laods any more once I reach 1 MOA) the ammo is just as good as ammo loaded with any other dies I have used including RCBS, Hornady, Redding and Lee FL dies.

For me the 2 biggest advantages are that I don't need to use lube and I believe they give increased case life.

My PMP 308 cases are currently on their 13th firing and I haven't lost a single one yet due to case/head separation or split necks. I full length size after 5-6 firings and I annealed after the 12th firing. Other calibres I haven't yet loaded cases that many times with the collet dies.

Although I read somewhere that one shouldn't use them in a press that "cams over", I set them up so that the press just cams over because I feel like I get more consistency that way.

When I first got the 308 die I had to strip it and polish the internals slightly followed by a touch of grease because it had a tendency to stick. Haven't needed to do that with the others, but maybe that was because I bought them 2nd hand & the previous owners had already done the same or used them enough to wear them in.

[oafpatroll]

The overwhelming majority of reloaders don't shoot well enough to detect, much less identify the source of a 0.05 improvement in consistency which can be a winnig margin at the top of some disciplines. I'd guess that the people who can make up a couple percent of the total at best.

Like in any contest of skill there are people who chase results with their wallets. You see it in everything from fat guys spending hundreds of thousands of rands on carbon fibre components to save 25kg of weight on their Lotus 7 style clubman racers and consistently finish in the bottom 20% of the pack or the SADPA shooter who arrives at a club match with more money in guns and gear than the winners car and finishes last.

There's nothing wrong with it and more strength to the elbows of those who have the means and get their kicks from having the latest and greatest gadgetry to go with their hobby. A real benefit to punters like me is that it provides a reliable source of high quality second hand gear as the industry continuously rolls out silver bullet solution that the silver bulleteers find irresistible.         

[Newton]

A real benefit to punters like me is that it provides a reliable source of high quality second hand gear as the industry continuously rolls out silver bullet solution that the silver bulleteers find irresistible.       

Care to disclose where one can find these ?
I would also like to benefit from the - irresistibility of the "silver bulleteers"
PS ;
I have a LEE 30-06 collet neck die which works fine for my 300WM modification
Sizes the full neck length of 9mm