Negligent discharges ...

[NoStepOnSnek88]

So you are adamant that 100% of all the cases are definitely some type of user error "negligent discharge"  or some type of object getting snagged in the holster or trigger causing the trigger to be depressed?

Besides the drop safety and the uncommanded discharges, there's a lot of P320's that has suffered out of battery detonations as well.

I'm not 100% certain about anything other than noise on the internet being something best ignored. What I'm saying, and I don't think this is remotely controversial is that there has been no proof presented of SIGs being able to fire themselves without the trigger being manipulated to the sear release point.

As mentioned before, the prosecutions in two of the cases where awards were made admitted that the guns in question couldn't fire without said manipulation. The most likely reason for people to shoot themselves with a bone stock service pistol is them pulling the trigger while pointing it at themselves. Next most likely is obstructions in the holster or bad holster design/manufacture that allows the trigger to be dragged while holstered. Way down the list of likely reasons is manufacturing defect and even further down than that is an inherent design flaw. Unlikely but not impossible and also very far from impossible to identify and replicate with the sample guns in hand. The fact that a plausible explanation hasn't been put forward, even in the cases where big money has been awarded, says more to me about the likely answer than anything else.

The drop safety thing was resolved with a general recall and redesign early in its sales life. None of the current round of magical discharge cases even hint at that being a factor.

Can you point me to the OOB detonation reports? I'd be interested to read them over. Given the vast sums of money spent by the US military in trials I'd be more than a bit surprised to find that there was something inherent in the 320's design that made it any more susceptible to OOB than any other gun of it's type. How to avoind them has been well understood for well over 100 years. 

The more I look into this, the more I'm struggling to say this isn't possible, rabbit hole indeed.
I think a contributing factor to this could also be that SIG uses MIM parts and that comes from places like India 🇮🇳  so the QC might not be up to scratch.

Here's another video that has some Military branches reporting uncommanded discharges with a full document download in the video description.

My opinion is they should have just made a trigger tab safety like many other firearms manufacturers.

Anyways, at least I know there's a few people in the world that agrees with me on the SIG P320's and that SIG is a real "shady" business.


https://youtu.be/nh-HzQ5cQ9k?si=SPTPRgsKmeQpDs_a

[oafpatroll]

Are you saying you think the gun can fire itself without the trigger being manipulated?

'Uncommanded discharges' sounds like classic weasel wordery to me. Along the lines of just transition, social justice or inclusive development.

MIM is used by just about everyone. You'll struggle to find a volume manufacturer that doesn't include it.

The fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't equate to it being likely or probable and until someone proves this 'phenomenon' empirically I'll stick to calling it most likely driver error chasing huge payouts in the land of loony civil litigation.

[NoStepOnSnek88]

Are you saying you think the gun can fire itself without the trigger being manipulated?

'Uncommanded discharges' sounds like classic weasel wordery to me. Along the lines of just transition, social justice or inclusive development.

MIM is used by just about everyone. You'll struggle to find a volume manufacturer that doesn't include it.

The fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't equate to it being likely or probable and until someone proves this 'phenomenon' empirically I'll stick to calling it most likely driver error chasing huge payouts in the land of loony civil litigation.

Yes that's what I'm saying, whatever the correct terminology is called, whether it be uncommanded discharges or something else, the definition remains the same, the firearm fired a round without the trigger being depressed.

You can go die on that hill, I refuse to believe that 100% of all these reported incidents are for payouts, user error, bad holster design etc.

[oafpatroll]

You can go die on that hill, I refuse to believe that 100% of all these reported incidents are for payouts, user error, bad holster design etc.

Nothing's impossible and as I've said before I'm not 100% sure of anything wrt this story, except perhaps that very large sums of money influence behaviour. It's not about belief one way or another but rather likelihood and a pistol is not a device complicated enough to hide magic so sooner or later it will be proven or not. If you 'believe' something then no amount of evidence or the lack thereof is convincing which is why I prefer to avoid it and keep an open mind. I look forward to seeing something empirical coming out of the investigations that must be happening in the background given the scale of the awards, the potential losses to SIG and potential knock-on effects to the US military and dozens of police forces.